A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

The bulk of the musical talk
User avatar
iiipopes
Utility Infielder
Utility Infielder
Posts: 8580
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:10 am

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by iiipopes »

djwesp wrote:As a member of 11 years of marching band (high school/collegiate), and 7 years of drum corps (bottom tier division 3 to world champion), I have NOT ONCE dropped a mouthpiece on the pavement, grass, dirt, gym floor, etc.
GOOD FOR YOU! You must be THE ONLY person who has never been dropped on, been run into, set the horn down to have it tripped over, etc.

Too much coffee? I'm thinking too much something else, also dark brown.
Jupiter JTU1110
"Real" Conn 36K
User avatar
WoodSheddin
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:44 pm
Location: On the bike
Contact:

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by WoodSheddin »

djwesp wrote:1. The differences from mouthpiece material (especially as vast as lexan vs. metal) are enormous.

2. Sousaphones by their very nature almost always (of course, opinion) merit a funnel or moderately funnelled mouthpiece. Cups, by nature, brighten the sound...meaning... sousaphones can cross the line into grotesque easier than with a funnel.

3. The constant "you will drop it" stuff is not necessarily true. As a member of 11 years of marching band (high school/collegiate), and 7 years of drum corps (bottom tier division 3 to world champion), I have NOT ONCE dropped a mouthpiece on the pavement, grass, dirt, gym floor, etc.

4. Take care of your lips! Putting a $150 mouthpiece on a school horn IS PERFECTLY acceptable.
1. its a Sousaphone
2. its a Sousaphone
3. everyone i know has dropped their mouthpiece on asphalt
4. agreed. play whatever you want. there are guys at work playing gold plated Finns and an Alan Baer custom

its a Sousaphone. its a moving target under varying wind and weather.

its a Sousaphone
sean chisham
User avatar
bearphonium
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: Making mischief in the back row at 44, 1' 49"N, 123, 8'10"W

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by bearphonium »

Kelly 18. Can't beat it, especially during times of extreme temperatures, either way.
Mirafone 186 BBb
VMI 201 3/4 BBb
King Sousaphone
Conn 19I 4-valve non-comp Euph


What Would Xena Do?
poomshanka
4 valves
4 valves
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by poomshanka »

Back when I was firing off the shoulder cannon on a regular basis, I played two mouthpieces that became the LOUD LM-10 and LM-12. Both will help introduce some nice clarity into the sound of an instrument not always known for its subtlety. I'd agree with KiltieTuba on the unexpected power of an LM-12, as well as the pyrotechnics in the low register. The LM-10 is also good for that, albeit not quite as abruptly as the LM-12.

For anyone concerned with cold weather usage, both mouthpieces are screw rim, and can have Delrin rims made for them...

...D
Dave Amason
User avatar
The Big Ben
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 3169
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:54 am
Location: Port Townsend, WA

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by The Big Ben »

Uncle Buck wrote:I have not done any sousaphone playing in a long time.

In my opinion, the previous posters in this thread whose advice I would consider the most valuable are directing you to either a Kelly 18 or a Kellyberg.

Either would work - but with some differences. Buying one of each wouldn't cost too much $$ either.
In my time on TubeNet, most all of the true mouthpiece choices come down to this:

"Does ya like yer tuba to come through a funnel or does ya like it served in a bowl?"

Everything else is fine tuning.
User avatar
PDCIITuba
bugler
bugler
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:13 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by PDCIITuba »

Art Hovey wrote:Get a Kelly 18 in your favorite color. Or get three for the price of one in an awful color from the Kelly website. Every student that I have switched to K18 has improved dramatically in the sound department. I have also found that it's easy to re-shape the rim and even enlarge the cup with sandpaper followed by finer sandpaper, followed by steel wool, followed by fine steel wool, followed by brisk rubbing with denim cloth.

i have to agree i have a kelly 24 AW mouthpiece Blue for my school color and i love it
S. E. Shires Craftsman
djwesp
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1166
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:01 pm

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by djwesp »

iiipopes wrote: Too much coffee? I'm thinking too much something else, also dark brown.

No, seriously. It hasn't happened. I am careful, really cinch the 'piece in and can honestly say, in a forum with many people i have marched with, that this has NOT happened.

Wes "who full expects to drop his mouthpiece at least 5 times the next time he touches a sousaphone; for jinxing himself (the "Christine" of sousaphones)" Pendergrass
User avatar
Kevin Hendrick
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:51 pm
Location: Location: Location

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by Kevin Hendrick »

iiipopes wrote:Too much coffee? I'm thinking too much something else, also dark brown.
Now, now -- it's common knowledge (a fine old oxymoron, that, eh? :wink: ) that there's no such thing as "too much chocolate"! :lol:
"Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." -- Pogo (via Walt Kelly)
User avatar
Jeffrey Hicks
3 valves
3 valves
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:47 am
Location: NKY

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by Jeffrey Hicks »

King 26. The ultimate sousaphone mpc. I would love to have one in lexan.
Conn 36K with Mike Finn "H"
User avatar
Kevin Hendrick
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:51 pm
Location: Location: Location

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by Kevin Hendrick »

Jeffrey Hicks wrote:King 26. The ultimate sousaphone mpc. I would love to have one in lexan.
I remember reading a while back that Kelly would make a duplicate of your metal mouthpiece in Lexan -- the price was higher than a production-line version would be (of course ... one-offs are always more expensive), but it might be worth it to you. You'd have to contact them directly to find out if they still do this, and -- if so -- how much it would cost. HTH! :D
"Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." -- Pogo (via Walt Kelly)
User avatar
imperialbari
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 7461
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:47 am

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by imperialbari »

Are tuba mouthpieces and sousaphone mouthpieces different categories?

Klaus
User avatar
Kevin Hendrick
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:51 pm
Location: Location: Location

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by Kevin Hendrick »

imperialbari wrote:Are tuba mouthpieces and sousaphone mouthpieces different categories?

Klaus
Only, I think, in the amount of rough treatment (particularly impact) that each can be expected to receive (a concert hall *usually* is a more benign environment than a muddy-snowy-icy football field "up North" here in October or November, not to mention that sunny 95F day in July or August). I sure wouldn't take a 40-year-old 6-valve Alex (for example) out in the mud and snow to slip and slide around with (and maybe fall down with :shock: ), nor would I take a "concert mouthpiece" out on the field if I had a workable alternative. Harsh conditions call for durable equipment.
"Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." -- Pogo (via Walt Kelly)
User avatar
imperialbari
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 7461
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:47 am

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by imperialbari »

Then we agree. Temperature impact on lips and the roughness of environment speak for plastic mouthpieces. But that also goes for tubas in those parts of the world, where neither sousaphones nor helicons are commonly seen in parades.

My point rather was that sousaphones, at least the better ones, are individual instruments every bit as much as are tubas. I have a Kelly 18, but I don’t use it, because it does not bring anything remarkable to any of my basses with me playing (and I don’t march).

And this is not at all Kelly-bashing. It bought the 18 at the same time as I bought the two Kelly 12C trombone mouthpieces for the hose & bell bugles I made for the very young twins of a friend. And I used these plastic 12C’s with great joy on my smallest trombones (soprano and alto).

Klaus
Funcoot
bugler
bugler
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by Funcoot »

I'd first like to apologies for starting this "war." Haha, I should have seen it coming though. You guys really do help and make me think. I appreciate the influx of responses.

I talked to my band director for advice too. He seems to really like Conn Hellebergs, and he said he would prefer for me to get a particular one (can't remember which right now). Since it should only cost around $100 (won't be hard with a job), I will probably go ahead and shell out the extra $30 for a Kelly just to see how I like it. If it isn't so bad and I don't get laughed at too much by some elitists, I would probably end up using it for parades and leave the Conn for the games. Sound like a plan?

Thanks for the replies guys, I do appreciate. Oh, and sorry for starting that little lexan vs. metal riot... haha.
User avatar
iiipopes
Utility Infielder
Utility Infielder
Posts: 8580
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:10 am

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by iiipopes »

I can play the rips in The Thunderer better on the 38K with the PT82 than I can on any other tuba/mouthpiece combination I have ever played. And remember, I got to spend all afternoon with Jeff Rideout and the trailer full coming back from San Antonio last August.
Jupiter JTU1110
"Real" Conn 36K
User avatar
WoodSheddin
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:44 pm
Location: On the bike
Contact:

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by WoodSheddin »

bloke wrote: but a few well-chosen models of sousaphones (including some fiberglass/plastic) are very nice-sounding instruments offering good intonation that (yes, again: including some fiberglass) get strong thumbs-up, sonically, from other wind players who have achieved very high levels of performance, and who are able to judge well whether or not musical sounds generated from an instrument are pleasing to the ear.
Maybe in a laboratory.

Play the Sousaphone in the environment and under the conditions for which it was designed and mouthpiece choice becomes the silliest of considerations.

When I repeat "it is a Sousaphone" I am not just speaking of the stand alone horn. I am speaking of it more as a definition of its usage.

The only time when mouthpiece selection might make any difference is if you are using the horn in the wrong situation. Namely on a stage inside a concert hall.

But frankly, while bobbing up and down at 110 bpm, swaying in a breeze, sun baking all the instruments throwing pitch all over the map, and the audience at 75 meters upwind, mouthpiece selection is just about as important as wearing the right colored boxers to the gig.

You give the best product you can under the playing conditions, but a Sousaphone is not a tuba.
sean chisham
User avatar
Rick Denney
Resident Genius
Posts: 6650
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:18 am
Contact:

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by Rick Denney »

WoodSheddin wrote:Play the Sousaphone in the environment and under the conditions for which it was designed and mouthpiece choice becomes the silliest of considerations.
And the congregation said "Amen!"

The notion that playing outdoors (on any instrument) reveals the subtleties necessary to distinguish a good plastic mouthpiece from a good metal mouthpiece to my thinking begs for challenge. Those who curl their lips up at the word "plastic" because it blocks their art need to do some true comparing. That means sitting in the stands and listening (but not looking) to someone out on the field, in the middle of ensemble play, switch back and forth between plastic and metal and then being able to identify which is which. If you can't do this, then it doesn't matter. And you'll have to conduct the test fair and square before I'll believe that you can tell the difference. Noticing a difference (and not necessarily even which is better or worse) in a practice room or band hall doesn't count.

Choose the mouthpiece for comfort and durability. That's where Sean's boxer-shorts analogy is most perfect.

I have burned my lips on a mouthpiece that has sat in the Texas sun as often as freezing them on those remarkably cold Thanksgiving Day parades in downtown Houston. I have been required to make moves with my tuba that would make it remarkable that the mouthpiece would not come out, just considering the momentum and inertia involved. A mouthpiece in a sousaphone requires three friction-fit tapered connections. A failure is three times as likely as, say, losing the mouthpiece out of a concert tuba, even if they are subject to the same movements. And that has happened to me a couple of times over the years, too. Considering that marching instruments are subject to considerable motion dynamics, the probabilities are much higher. Yes, I have had my mouthpiece delivered to me after the band exited the field and someone noticed something shiny left behind.

And how many goosenecks have been mangled from people twisting those bits in that little bit tighter?

To answer Klaus's question, it's a matter of requirements. Using a sousaphone in a concert situation, i.e., sitting down on a stage, has the same requirements as for a concert tuba. Using a concert tuba in a marching situation has the same requirements as a sousaphone in its typical usage.

Using a sousaphone in a jazz band is a separate category. But even there it is often subject to significant movement.

Rick "noting that the Kelly line accommodates all the basic mouthpiece shapes" Denney
User avatar
Kevin Hendrick
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:51 pm
Location: Location: Location

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by Kevin Hendrick »

the elephant wrote:I just use the one that came in the "Sousaphone Hero" box.
Hey, if it would have been good enough for Bill Bell, why not for us? :wink:
"Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." -- Pogo (via Walt Kelly)
User avatar
imperialbari
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 7461
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:47 am

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by imperialbari »

How will morons make do with Moronette mouthpieces? Don’t they deserve better?
User avatar
imperialbari
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 7461
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:47 am

Re: A good sousaphone mouthpiece?

Post by imperialbari »

The right choice of mouthpiece always is worth a consideration no matter whether the main parameter is sheer survival of the player in a difficult environment or the optimal musical output under more workable conditions.

Our royal lifeguard parades through Copenhagen for the daily shift of guards during the royal residence in town from November through March. Conditions can be rough due to rain, snow, or frosty weather. If conditions are too rough for making reasonable music, then the music is left to the corps of fifes and drums, which marches behind the band, and which alternates with the band in the sequence of march playing even on normal days.

If weather is too rough for the sousaphones, then the woodwinds hardly will be better off. The special problem with the wind catching the sousaphone bells might be solvable, if formalism is not given a too high priority.

Some months ago Neptune/Jonathan discussed problems about getting a more manageable marching tuba than his concert BAT’s without resorting to a minimal 3 valve Eb. He chose a more compact CC. If conditions make sousaphones unwieldy there are several compact professional level tubas in Eb, CC, or BBb, which will provide better musical results than those of handicapped sousaphones.

Klaus
Post Reply