Circus Bands

[Tuba Guy]

Does anyone know if there are any of these still around/if they could be hiring?

[eupher61]

RBB&B now travels with 7 pieces, I think, and does minimal if any local hiring.

I played bass bone on it for 9 shows...not a good idea for a doubler without the left hand strength! At that time they travelled with drummer, lead trumpet, keyboard, and bass, and hired 10 or so locals. No more.

There may be some really small show, like Carson and Barnes, that still use live travelling bands. But you'll be raising and striking tents, loading trucks, and shoveling dung. If they exist at all.

[EdFirth]

Just a slight correction here. I played Carson and Barnes, Circus Vargas, and know the guys on the old Clyde Beatty band. Nobody did anything but play in the band unless they chose to, and that was something like driving a show truck for extra bread. I don't think any of the shows, other than Ringling, carry bands anymore. But please don't make it up as you go along. Playing a show for a couple of weeks in town, going home every night is not much like traveling with them, living in a band sleeper or a train car, or your own trailer. Whiney little pukes didn't usually last too long. But those days are probably gone forever like real circus music. Ed

[Bill Troiano]

I subbed at Circus World in Orlando, FLA bck in the late 70's. It was a small band, but it was a good gig and we played a lot. It's a good thing we can play without using our left hand because you need that hand to turn pages. I have no idea whether they would still be using a tuba in the band.

[Chuck Jackson]

subbed at Circus World in Orlando, FLA bck in the late 70's. It was a small band, but it was a good gig and we played a lot. It's a good thing we can play without using our left hand because you need that hand to turn pages. I have no idea whether they would still be using a tuba in the band.

I played there in 1980-81 when I was going to Stetson. Fabulous experience for a 19 yo kid. I first heard the great Dave Gannet playing the Outdoor Band before he went on the road. His place was taken over by another stupendous tuba player, Jay Mueller. I worked inside on weekends and, yes, got used to doing the quick page turn. There were so many great players on the band. Circus World closed down in the Mid-80's and the property was made into "Boardwalk and Baseball". I think it may be a spring training site.

Chuck"who sadly wasn't around long enough to get a face name"Jackson

[Dean E]

Does anyone know if there are any of these still around/if they could be hiring?

. . . it was an "electric bass" gig...

That is an interesting story. I wonder what the considerations are for using electric basses instead of tubas? I know the Hofbräuhaus and Broadway often use electric bass instead of tuba.

Here are a few possibilities that assume it is cheaper to hire electric basses:

1. Electric bass players work for less because:
a. No time invested in formal music education?
b. Not much invested in electric bass and equipment compared to professionals' tubas?
c. Less musical skill and ability required to perform on electric bass than on tuba?
2. Electric bass players are fungible, and replacements are easy to find on Craigslist?
3. Electric bass players have lower self esteem and don't think twice about working for peanuts.

Or is it because electric bass players are more dependable than tuba players? Better musicians? Don't need sheet music? Draw more of their friends and relatives to gigs?

[eupher61]

Ed, thanks for the firsthand info on the C&B and Beatty shows. My information came from talking to a sax player in the C&B show some 30 years ago, when they came to my hometown. Maybe he was pulling my leg, but he told me he did a few other things. At his then-age, he was beyond the shoveling and tent duties, but still had other things to do. Well, that's what he said.

BTW, the band sounded great! The rest of the show, well....

They were still finding elephant dung 4 years later when that site was developed!

==============

Circus World closed down in the Mid-80's and the property was made into "Boardwalk and Baseball". I think it may be a spring training site.

Boardwalk and Baseball lasted one or two years after the Royals moved in, then the amusement park closed down, due to bankruptcy IIRC. The Royals stayed for about 12 more years, finally moved to AZ last year. Anheuser-Busch owned the complex at one time, but sold it the year before the amusement park went bankrupt (I think, it's been a while). It seemed like a great deal when the Royals moved there, but like so much else the team did for so many years, turned out to be a huge mistake.

[eupher61]

Anyone interested in hearing what a circus band REALLY sounded like (esp for those too young to have had the experience) there are some phenomenal recordings on Dave Gannett's website http://www.tubagear.com

Look under a couple of names in the recordings area: under Dave's name, "Memories of Uncle Henry", a Fillmore album. (it's also under Harvey's name)

Suddenly, I'm really glad I bought the "Tribute to Merle Evans" recording when I did, it's gone from the site now. THAT is an amazing recording, Mr Evans (50+ years director of the RBB&B bands) with the "NEC Circus Band" (New England Conservatory, that is) with Harvey and Dave playing tuba. Pretty good playing, BUT the real thrill is listening to the last side of the album, when Mr Evans talks about the music, his life in the band show business, musicians he worked with or knew...THAT is amazing. I'll email Dave and find out what happened to this recording.

But, there are 2 others, with Evans and the RBB&B bands (well, one is an "All Star" band, but the other is the 1941 season band) and are amazing! This is what THE circus band (purely because of size of the show) actually sounded like.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED! Get it before it disappears, too!

[Matt G]

Does anyone know if there are any of these still around/if they could be hiring?

. . . it was an "electric bass" gig...

That is an interesting story. I wonder what the considerations are for using electric basses instead of tubas? I know the Hofbräuhaus and Broadway often use electric bass instead of tuba.

Here are a few possibilities that assume it is cheaper to hire electric basses:

1. Electric bass players work for less because:
a. No time invested in formal music education?
b. Not much invested in electric bass and equipment compared to professionals' tubas?
c. Less musical skill and ability required to perform on electric bass than on tuba?
2. Electric bass players are fungible, and replacements are easy to find on Craigslist?
3. Electric bass players have lower self esteem and don't think twice about working for peanuts.

Or is it because electric bass players are more dependable than tuba players? Better musicians? Don't need sheet music? Draw more of their friends and relatives to gigs?

I honestly think it is for a few things:

1. Many current brass players continue to have a certain mentality. One that doesn't always mix well with others.

2. Bass players understand the idea to integrate themselves into the rhythm section far more than tuba players do.

3. A good bass player can pull off some seemingly difficult (but not really) finger/slap work that can change the entire sound of the band.

4. Most good E-Bass players make more money than tuba players of the same comparable ability.

5. Most can improvise when needed. Go to your local college and ask the tuba studio to lay down changes in Bb. 16 bars with a solid turnaround. Prepare for hilarity to ensue.

I admit to learning "commercial" stuff on tuba a little late. Regardless, I was in a band who went to bars and played for decent cash and could improvise tunes for the crowd. When I got out of college, and did some real listening to style that could pay, I figured out a bit more. I was no expert, but I knew the heads of some popular tunes and could play changes in just about every key "okay". I know that there are some tuba professors out there telling kids that this is something they should learn, but within the confines of the current academic scheduling for music majors and the general apathy of the students, I doubt much of the commercial aspect of tuba playing is being learned.

Circus bands are probably hiring people who like to play, can play a flexible book, and who have experience in front of "general" audiences. Seeing as how few young tuba players understand the difference between 4-beat and 2-beat let alone what it is like to play in front of a crowd like a circus crowd, I can see why the contractors hire electric bass players.

[eupher61]

It's actually quite simple, much more simple than the Matthew posited:

Circus bands don't play "circus music" any more. It's a mishmash of pop, rock, jazz, reconstituted circus music (into a pop/rock form), and folk/Americana/old time pop.

They're using synths. They're using electronic drums, not drum machines but easier-to-transport-and-get-lots-of-sounds-out-of-minimal-pieces electronic drums. I wouldn't be surprised to see [url-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EWI]Weird-o-phones[/url] (thanks, Michael Brecker, for the name!) next time I go.

[eupher61]

And, a simple answer to the missing NEC Circus Band recording: distribution rights.

It'll be back sometime. Meanwhile, I'm now THRILLED to have bought it!

[kingrob76]

It's actually quite simple, much more simple than the Matthew posited:

Circus bands don't play "circus music" any more. It's a mishmash of pop, rock, jazz, reconstituted circus music (into a pop/rock form), and folk/Americana/old time pop.

They're using synths. They're using electronic drums, not drum machines but easier-to-transport-and-get-lots-of-sounds-out-of-minimal-pieces electronic drums. I wouldn't be surprised to see [url-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EWI]Weird-o-phones[/url] (thanks, Michael Brecker, for the name!) next time I go.

I've seen Ringling Bros. the past two years an I can confirm this - except the shows I saw didn't even use Circus music, it was straight up show music. It's really just like working the pit on any musical in terms of the instrumentation / style of music.

[EdFirth]

Hi Eupher, think the sax player you talked to on Carson and Barnes was Perry Johnson who was with us on the Circus Vargas band prior to becoming leader on Carson and Barnes. Great guy, Incredibly strong player, we never knew why he split. But, with my apologies, if he went there and said the band would do extra stuff, than they probably did.They approached us while I was there about helping out and we said they could find another band and it was dropped. But Perry was a super nice guy and mabye not so militant about it. I actually helped tear down a few times in real heavy weather on Circus Vargas since the end of the show would be the end of the money. All the Best, Ed

[eupher61]

Ed, when Dave Gannett gets the "Tribute to Merle Evans" back in availability, I hope you'll buy it...if for no other reason, to hear Mr Evans tell his stories. It's wonderful, he knew everyone, it seems!

When were you with Circus Vargas?

[pigman]

To my knowledge I played the last RBBB tuba show in the 80"s (Blue unit). The red show had gone Bass many years before. I did 164 shows in 5 cities. after that year they shrank the band and dropped the tuba. and went pop. I think big apple carries a band. One of the problems they had was hiring competant players for the local chairs.
2hours and 45 mininutes of non stop playing with a 15 min intermission.11 to 13 shows a week.
hardest job ever
Best job ever

Ray Noguera

[tofu]

[

[EdFirth]

The Tribute to Merle Evans Is great. I got it back in the 70's. The thing is, the real Ringling band, when Merle had it, was acoustic. I have two recordings of it and they play super loud. Harvey Phillips and Johnny Evans were the tuba players and they really took it out. You can also very much tell when Merle is playing. The guy was incredibly powerful. He and his wife were at the First International Tuba Symposium that Harvey put on in 73'. West Point gave the tuba section adminastrative leave to go so we drove out in a VW van. It must've looked pretty ratty because Mrs. Evans gave us money to help out in the trip back. To ansewr Eupher's question I joined Vargas in November of 75' after the Carson and Barnes season ended, split in april 76., and rejoined on trombone and baritone for the whole 77' season. Then went back to tuba, {more money} in 78' and split the end of February. Dave Gannett, Jerry Ulrich, and I had a tuba trio in New Orleans after that and Dave and I played together in the Disney World band later on. He moved to Alabama and is now a truck driving, tuba playing, minister. The music goes round and round . Ed

[eupher61]

I emailed Carson and Barnes, got a quick reply...they now use canned music.

*sigh

Ed, I don't really remember when I saw the show, but now that I'm thinking more about it, it could have been as early as 1975. I don't even remember there being a tuba player, I'm thinking it was an electric bass, but memory is fuzzy.

[Tuba Guy]

well, so much for dropping out, running away, and joining the circus...

[pigman]

AHHHH the smell of dryied elephant!!!!!!!!!