Silverplate, Paint questions, rules about customizing

[hald]

I have a silver plated instrument and wonder why it does not have an anti-tarnish coating?
How does painting an instrument affect it's sound? I've seen trumpets in different colors. Is that a lacquer finish? Also, why only lacquer? Why not a modern synthetic finish? I'm thinking of painting the silver instrument I have, leaving the bell and highlights silver.

Has anyone experimented with painting an instrument? Do you think carefully wrapping it in a single layer of plastic saran wrap might approximate the resulting sound of the horn?
Is customizing verboten?
-hald

[imperialbari]

I have a silver plated instrument and wonder why it does not have an anti-tarnish coating?
How does painting an instrument affect it's sound? I've seen trumpets in different colors. Is that a lacquer finish? Also, why only lacquer? Why not a modern synthetic finish? I'm thinking of painting the silver instrument I have, leaving the bell and highlights silver.

Has anyone experimented with painting an instrument? Do you think carefully wrapping it in a single layer of plastic saran wrap might approximate the resulting sound of the horn?
Is customizing verboten?
-hald

Part of the game about plating is exactly avoiding laquer or a similar layer of non-metal added to the instrument. Renold Schilke did research on this topic. The redux is that metal plating affects the sound much less than does lacquer.

Whether one prefers the sound of one coating or another is a matter of taste. And as an owner of several instruments I believe that the playing properties of an instrument before it was coated is more important for the final result than the type of coating.

Only in one instrument of mine lacquer has been applied over plating. My old 26K has a golden flare, but it is the cheaper gold lacquer, not a real gold wash. The sound is not influenced in a negative way.

Denis Wick reports on having a Conn 8H relacquered by a company issuing a guarantee that the lacquer would last. But then it deadened that trombone so DW had the lacquer removed.

I have removed the lacquer from the flares and stacks of a couple of large trombones, because I wanted them brighter and more alive. I found it worked, but not radically so.

Klaus

[tubaguy9]

well...honestly, imperialbari nailed it.

[sloan]

I have a silver plated instrument and wonder why it does not have an anti-tarnish coating?
How does painting an instrument affect it's sound? I've seen trumpets in different colors. Is that a lacquer finish? Also, why only lacquer? Why not a modern synthetic finish? I'm thinking of painting the silver instrument I have, leaving the bell and highlights silver.

Has anyone experimented with painting an instrument? Do you think carefully wrapping it in a single layer of plastic saran wrap might approximate the resulting sound of the horn?
Is customizing verboten?
-hald

Part of the game about plating is exactly avoiding laquer or a similar layer of non-metal added to the instrument. Renold Schilke did research on this topic. The redux is that metal plating affects the sound much less than does lacquer.

On a *Trumpet*.

[Wyvern]

We often read that lacquer deadens the sound, but last week a friend visited with his raw brass Neptune which gave the opportunity to play test against my gold lacquered Neptune. Surprisingly mine felt slightly more alive, so that goes against the perceived effect. However that may well be because his leadpipe is soldered onto the bell, where as mine is detachable. But in any case the very slight difference was not audibly detectable out front.

I would say, go for whatever finish you like. Other factors have far greater effect on the playing.

[imperialbari]

We often read that lacquer deadens the sound, but last week a friend visited with his raw brass Neptune which gave the opportunity to play test against my gold lacquered Neptune. Surprisingly mine felt slightly more alive, so that goes against the perceived effect. However that may well be because his leadpipe is soldered onto the bell, where as mine is detachable. But in any case the very slight difference was not audibly detectable out front.

I would say, go for whatever finish you like. Other factors have far greater effect on the playing.

I tend to agree, if only the non-metal coating is applied sparingly.

One may in an odd way say that the fiberglass portion of the white sousaphones is all structured paint. The most recent sample highly discussed here was blokeºs Pimpophone, which looked like sprayed with the stuff used for hyping up fancy trucks. It looked denser (less porous) than some older sousaphones having their white yellowed by the effects of the sun. It would be interesting to hear whether this potentially hardened surface had improved the sound. I remember a craze from well over 10 years ago, when flute players wanted platinized instruments.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

Is customizing verboten?
No customizing is manditory!
google the words stealth tuba!

Successful translucent coating:

[Art Hovey]

If you use your tuba as a cymbal or churchbell then painting it will probably deaden its ring. But I use mine as a tuba, and I find metal vibrations to be annoying. When I played a fixed-recording-bell King in high school used to reach up and stop the bell vibration with my hand. (That's still an easy way to find the answer to your question.) Some tubists wrap leather straps around their bells, or put plastic tubing on the bell rim, which also deadens the bell vibration. In my opinion that's usually an improvement. I painted my helicon black 42 years ago, and put black tape over the areas that get the most wear. I still touch it up almost every year. The paint looks good when it is new, but is not as durable as lacquer. I tell people that the black paint gives it a "darker tone", and some actually believe me. The real reason for the paint is it's a lot easier than polishing.

[Carroll]

I sprayed a trombone with black laquer in the 80's that ended up looking great. I left the ferrules brass for contrast. I did not notice a big difference between the patchy old laquer, the stripped horn, or the shiny new laquer. That said, it looked way cool.

[Kevin Hendrick]

I tell people that the black paint gives it a "darker tone", and some actually believe me.

[Tuba Guy]

I tell people that the black paint gives it a "darker tone", and some actually believe me.

I did that when I played bass clarinet...I put a wool sock over the neck...when they asked me why, I just told them that I wanted a warmer sound. Amazing how the sax player bought it (yes, he was my teacher)

[hald]

I think I'm gonna try paint, a water base that would be easy to remove, to see how it affects things. I've read about wrapping with leather or cloth, and considered that too. I hadn't heard of holding the bell to reduce vibration.

I searched and read the material by Schilke. I wondered if paint creates a surface barrier between itself and the metal that affects the sound, while plating becomes part of the instrument and creates a new surface.

I also wondered after reading about the heaviness of instruments. At the ITEA this past weekend I handled several instruments and there seemed to be a wide range in weight.
Thanks for all the input. When I get around to experimenting with paint I'll post if I find anything significant.
-hald

[tubamirum]

I glued phony jewels around a horn mouthpiece and told people that "they created an aura". Most were polite.

[imperialbari]

I glued pony jewels around a horn mouthpiece and told people that "they created an aura". Most were polite.

Where did you buy these polite pony jewels?