digital recorders once and for all

[Kevin Hendrick]

...why can't I just record right into my laptop with Audacity, in a room with good acoustics,and edit it???? That's what I have been doing, and in a good room, it sounds good.

If you already have a system that works for you, and that you're satisfied with, why spend the extra bucks? "If it ain't broke ..."

[pgym]

...why can't I just record right into my laptop with Audacity, in a room with good acoustics,and edit it???? That's what I have been doing, and in a good room, it sounds good.

Three words for you: "Automatic gain control." Virtually all laptop soundcards use automatic gain control; very few laptop soundcards offer the option to turn off automatic gain control.

Automatic gain control can and does wreak havoc on dynamic contrasts. Record yourself on a device without AGC and one with AGC and compare the recordings. The difference will be eye-opening.

The Tascam DR-07 offers similar recording capabilities as the DR-01 in a slightly smaller package for about $100 less. The main difference is that the DR-01 hasboth 1/4" and 3.5mm stero mic inputs, while the DR-07 has only the 3.8mm stereo mic input.

[fenne1ca]

I don't know anything about techincial specs, but I had my teacher record my recital with his H2, and it sounds just fine to me. Those are some quality built-in mics!

[pgym]

The mic jack size is based on the diameter of the plug. The one you're using has a 3.5mm plug. It should work fine with the DR-07.

The click track is probably not related to AGC. Could be any number of things, but if I had to guess, I'd guess it's an Audacity-generated click track (see the Generate > Click Track menu).

[Art Hovey]

The Roland "Edirol" R-09 is all the recorder you will ever need. In addition to sound quality it has something the others lack: reliability. I've been using one for a couple of years now, and it continues to amaze me.

[THE TUBA]

The Roland "Edirol" R-09 is all the recorder you will ever need. In addition to sound quality it has something the others lack: reliability. I've been using one for a couple of years now, and it continues to amaze me.

I concur.

[rocksanddirt]

I've been using a zoom h2, and it really does a nice job. not just recording tuba, but pretty much anything else as well, indoors or out.

The best thing about all the modern digital recorders, imo, is the ability to record in different formats and sample rates. mp3 format, while very nice compression for pop music blows for acoustic music with dynamic contrast, you lose so much of the sound.

[The Jackson]

On Amazon, where my mom got me mine, the Zoom H-2 is at a fantastic price (approx. $155). It records tuba fantastically, as well as spoken word. It's a really great tool.

[David Schwartz]

... I think everyone likes what they have (which is good, I guess none of the devices have huge issues), but I wonder if someone has BAD things to say about some of these guys...Thanks!

There's a very detailed analysis of most of the respected hand held digital recorders at this link. If you're thinking about buying one of the more expensive models it's worth spending some time thinking about the details.

David

[The Jackson]

I'll just put a one-more in for the Zoom H2.

It looks like a lot of the other recorders (all more $$) have internal drives for storage (2-4GB). The H2 has no internal storage, and the SD card that comes with the package is 512MB. Depending on what you want to use the recorder for, you might want to get a larger SD card. I keep the recording settings to produce .WAV files, which are pretty beefy in terms of memory usage. I use my recorder to record lessons and other stuff, so I upgraded and get a 2GB SD card ($14). It might not be a huge deal for you, but it might be something to keep in mind.

[pgym]

It looks like a lot of the other recorders (all more $$) have internal drives for storage (2-4GB).

Which other recorders?

I'm not aware of any current model digital recorders other than the Yamaha Pocketrax 2G that have only internal flash memory storage. Every other recorder I've seen that has onboard flash memory ALSO has a flash memory card slot of some sort (SD/memory stick/CF).

[The Jackson]

I am going by the link that Mr. David Schwartz posted a little while ago. From there, the Olympus LS-10, the Sony PCM-D50, the Yamaha Pocketrak 2G (like you said) and the Korg MR-1 (20GB!!) all have internal media storage memory. The Zoom H2 is also less expensive than any of the models listed in that article.

EDIT: Whoops, I read you a little bit wrongly. Yes, you are right, only that Yamaha model cannot use portable flash storage. I was just pointing out that some of the more expensive models have internal storage capabilities. To some, it might be an issue with the carrying around of memory card(s) and should be kept in mind.

[Chris Olka]

Just FYI, I have the Tascam model. When I bought it, I bought the Edirol, Korg, Yamaha, and Tascam all at the same time. I took them all to my hall, placed them the side by side in the same place and played for about 2 hours, listening back occasionally with my colleagues. They all had the Edirol model by the way. After it was finished, everyone (4 people) agreed that the Tascam was the most accurate representation of what they heard. While the Edirol has a slightly warmer sound to my ears, the Tascam clearly is a more accurate capture of what we were hearing in the hall. I should point out that I was looking for the most accurate capture so that I could use it as my "ears" in the hall for testing equipment. While I thought the Edirol was a little more flattering in what it "heard", the Tascam caught everything, warts and all. All of the above machines would be more than adequate for most purposes and none are that difficult to use. After we finished, I returned the other 3 models to the store. My 4 colleagues all sold their Edirol models and bought the Tascam DR-01.

Just my observations, for what they are worth.
Chris Olka
Seattle Symphony

[pgym]

EDIT: Whoops, I read you a little bit wrongly. Yes, you are right, only that Yamaha model cannot use portable flash storage. I was just pointing out that some of the more expensive models have internal storage capabilities. To some, it might be an issue with the carrying around of memory card(s) and should be kept in mind.

Well, I probably misread your post, too, so I guess that makes us even.

I thought you were suggesting that the Zoom H2 had a capability (flash card slot) that the others didn't.

[sloan]

The Roland "Edirol" R-09 is all the recorder you will ever need. In addition to sound quality it has something the others lack: reliability. I've been using one for a couple of years now, and it continues to amaze me.

I agree. The slight upgrade is even better.

[The Jackson]

I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but the H2 has the ability to adjust the gain level. This is advantageous when changing recording environments. I am not familiar with AGC, so I don't know if it's on there or not.

[Wyvern]

Thanks everyone, again, for your posts. Does anyone know if you can turn off the Automatic Gain Control on the Zoom-2 ? I assume it is possible, but just want to make sure...

Having just checked my H2 - the answer is YES and mine is turned off by default.

An interesting additional function on the H2 I have only just noticed looking at the instructions booklet is as a 'Chromatic tuner' for tuning musical instruments, complete with pitch adjustment. Anyone tried using that function?

I am delighted with the recording results from my Zoom H2. As an example, here is recording of "All through the night" I made at recent concert with my band http://www.humyo.com/F/9306289-614567881 . It is in a church and the H2 is sat on the font at the back of the church (looked after by one of the band supporters). I think you will agree it picks up the tuba (my Neptune) quite well.

[rocksanddirt]

'snip'
An interesting additional function on the H2 I have only just noticed looking at the instructions booklet is as a 'Chromatic tuner' for tuning musical instruments, complete with pitch adjustment. Anyone tried using that function?

'snip'

I have used the tuner a bit, it works fine, but is difficult in a low-ish light environment as the display doesn't stay back lit very long. in a bright room, not a big deal, as you can still see the display.

[MaryAnn]

People I know who have the Edirol are delighted by it if they are not "techies." That is, it will give them a result they are happy with, without their having to mess with what it produces.

I bought the H4 because I thought I wanted to make four-track recordings; but after one attempt at four-tracking, I have used it only in stereo and only for Messing Around. It is nowhere near what I would want or need if I got serious about multi-track recording. It also has lots and lots of features that I don't want or need ("guitar effects;") BTW, compression is something that can be very useful if you want to make a recording without distortion....you can have the input level cranked up to the highest reasonable point for the "vast majority" of the input signal strength, without causing clipping for those few spots that go over. Very helpful for singers. But if you want a Kompleatly Accurate recording of your tuba playing....you wouldn't want to use compression.

A friend who is technical minded and also rich, records the brass band's performances. These are the only "amateur" recordings I have heard that match what I would call CD quality. He has some interface gizmo that cost $1500; and that is only an interface gizmo. I don't know what his mikes cost, or the rest of it. You get the idea. If I want to do acoustic four-track recording, I'm going to have to spend some bucks. Before I did that....I think I'd want to take some courses from some people who know what they are doing.

MA