Yet another mouthpiece question

[OldsRecording]

Both of my boys are picking up the tuba in the fall. My oldest will be in 10 grade and is resuming playing after a year and a half off, and my youngest is going into 6th and is switching from trombone. I feel they both should at least have their own mouthpieces, and the confines of the family budget seem to indicate Kellys. My question is should I go with the KellyBerg or the 18? Any other input would be appreciated.

[David Richoux]

I usually don't weigh in on mouthpiece discussions, but maybe this might be why:

Everybody is different - our mouths, teeth, tongues, lips - all different. Children are growing and their facial structure changes quickly, and a lot, as they age. (We continue to change facial structure as we age...) As your boys get older they will get facial hair and that can also have some effect on their embouchure/mouthpiece area over the years. There are many dozens of different tubas in common use that respond to the many dozens of different mouthpieces in sometimes unpredictable ways.

Without trying out a range of sizes, styles and kinds of mouthpieces with the particular horns they will be playing, and maybe changing them as they grow (and improve as players or change horns ) you may be doing them a disservice by pre-choosing a particular size or design. Work with your local store or teacher (if possible) to choose the best mouthpiece possible, and be ready to change it as needed.

Sorry if this is not too great an answer - it is not an easy thing to help select or recommend the "best" mouthpiece for someone else without a lot more information!

[Donn]

Who knows, though, if you get the right shape and get them to practice hard, they won't need braces and you'll save a bundle!

I didn't play tuba when I was a kid, and you should see my snaggle teeth.

[Art Hovey]

Kelly sometimes offers 3 for the price of one. Check their website.
If the offer is still good, why not get an 18, a 25, and a Kellyberg, and see what works best for each of the boys? Most students have a hard time hitting low F until they move up to an 18. A 25 is too small for a grownup on a BBb tuba, but it can help ease the transition from trombone. The 24AW would be good for beginners if the rim were not so wide. If you have access to a lathe and the necessary skills you could trim it down to a reasonable width, similar to the Kellyberg. The Kelly plastic is easy to work with.

[ztuba]

In my experience having a smaller mouthpiece does not help younger players.

[imperialbari]

- If either of them (maybe, the younger one...??) has a very small mouth, a teeth-shape that may be "pointed" (vs. "flat") in the front, or (at this point in their growth) still a very short distance from their lips to their nose, buy 'em a Kelly 25.

As illustrated here:

viewtopic.php?p=294645#p294645

Klaus

[iiipopes]

Having played many different souzys, from a freshman in high school in the fall of 1976 onward, my experiences and observations of both my own playing and observing others play are as follows:

1) I started on a King 25, which was standard issue for my school's King 1250's. It was probably too small, as I had trouble with low range. I do recommend going to the Blessing 18 or Conn Helleberg, either the 7 or the 120S, depending on how the particular student gets along with it.

2) The Conn .734 bore and others, like the Yammy or Buescher with @ .730 or so bore seem to project better outdoors with something like an 18. Try a Blessing 18 on a Conn 14K and it sounds very good, indeed. The King, Jupiter, Reynolds, Olds, etc., with the .687/.689 bore seem to need a Helleberg to keep from being harsh and blatty, whether the Conn 120S, the Schilke H or HII, or even the slightly shallower Conn 7. I use a PT82 with the 38K because of its very large bell throat, as this mouthpiece was designed for the PT605/GR51 BBb tuba, which has @ .748 primary bore and a very large bell throat compared to its flare. It sounds great and I can play the 38K literally all day long with it. Either it or the 18 would work well on a Conn 20K.

3) Everyone should have a Kelly because of its light weight, it being practically unbreakable in normal use, and insensitivity to cold. But it can be inconsistent from register to register because the lexan has a lower resonance than brass, and it needs a ring of golfer's lead tape around the throat to stabilize dynamic extremes. My primary use of a Kelly 18 anymore is on my Besson when I play for a Salvation Army kettle in December. But it's good in hot weather as well.

I respectfully disagree with the above. You can go completely wrong with a Bach 24 for anything but a middle school student. It's just not large enough for a BBb to get good low range on a souzy. In addition, the 24AW has the wide "comfort rim," which can actually impede flexibility and hinder articulation response, and should be reserved for those whose embouchure can't adapt to a moderately wide rim. Even the current issue Conn Helleberg 120S now has a slightly wider, rounded rim rather than the flat narrow rim of a "true" Helleberg, as Sidey still makes.

[peter birch]

you can never tell with kids whether or not they are going to stick with music or find another instrument that is more to their liking. And it is a great idea to have their own mouthpiece, for me it is as intimate a piece of equipment as my toothbrush, and must be kept in a good state of repair and cleanliness. But it is worth trying the mouthpiece that comes with instrument, provided that it is in a good condition, and that you give them a good clean them before your kids use them.

BTW, at least 3 guys (well 2 guys and a girl) in my band have managed to break their kelly mouthpieces in reasonably normal circumstances.

[Dan Schultz]

A Kelly 18 (Bach 18 copy) is as good a place to start as any.

[MartyNeilan]

Even the current issue Conn Helleberg 120S now has a slightly wider, rounded rim rather than the flat narrow rim of a "true" Helleberg, as Sidey still makes.

A sharp inner rim may be a turnoff to a beginner, who is going to initially have a hard time finding the balance of enough pressure to seal but not too much. The slightly rounded rim of the newer Conn, or the even more rounded off Kellyberg may be a better choice - the Sidey may be a good choice after the first two years.

[OldsRecording]

My youngest brought home a horn for the summer, a King 1140 that looks like it saw service in the Crimean War, although it plays fairly decently. The mouthpiece is a Bach 24w (not 24aw... hmmmm...) with the usual pockmarks and bent shank end. I'm thinking the 'Berg for my oldest (15, just over 6'- he also will be playing sousaphone in marching band in the fall) and the 18 for my 10 year old.

[Chriss2760]

The 18 gets my vote. A great all-round mp. When he/they need something different, he/they will know what it is.

[iiipopes]

My youngest brought home a horn for the summer, a King 1140 that looks like it saw service in the Crimean War, although it plays fairly decently. The mouthpiece is a Bach 24w (not 24aw... hmmmm...) with the usual pockmarks and bent shank end. I'm thinking the 'Berg for my oldest (15, just over 6'- he also will be playing sousaphone in marching band in the fall) and the 18 for my 10 year old.

No. I've both heard and demonstrated these tubas and their other small bore 3/4 counterparts played with an 18, 24AW, and a variety of other bowl-cup mouthpieces. The tone is grainy and harsh. These smaller tubas need a Conn Helleberg 120S to sound decent. They're not worth spending any more than the cost of a Conn Helleberg or the Faxx version, but they do need the deeper funnel to give any tone back.