Incoming Freshman College Tuba/Sousaphone Players

[rocksanddirt]

An interesting topic and thread.

My experience is quite different. At Cal, in the 80's we had 180-200 folks in band. No skolerchips, kredits, or other compensation.

Generally we had 12 to 16 Basses. Between 1/3 and 1/2 were usually converted clarinet, trumpet, or alto players. The rest were genuine tubists. The sound was usually a meaty rich foundation for everything from fight songs to Stravinsky to latin disco.

We always had music auditions, but the director was mostly interested in 'did you understand how to make noise on your horn, and can you read music'. Though the way he conducted the auditions made most members say it was the hardest and most stressful they have ever participated in.

The music, marching drill, and everything else was organized by the band members, primarily by the elected executive committee (DM, Student director, senior manager, Public relations director, and exec. secretary, and the Director). Music for pregame and half time shows was always memorized.

The purpose of the band is to support the athletic teams, and entertain the audiences during breaks in the games. It was a big social thing, as well as real work. one of those things that's fun to work at.

[Rob]

Ok, I'll throw out my 2 cents.

My memories of marching band are similar to most, it was fun, some people were better than others but the big picture was that it was enjoyable for all even if we were sweating and carrying around brass sousa's in extreme heat. I don't remember that we ever memorized music, and it seems we changed tunes with some frequency. I do remember the occasional sectionals to be very low-key and possibly even focusing on simple things like proper breathing and practicing that through the mpc's without the horns.

My suggestions(they've perhaps been previously touched on)

-You can't force someone to do something, and pushing seems to naturally be a deterrent and create quite the opposite effect. No one is going to push someone to do something better unless then have some control over the carrot(the 1000) at the end of the stick.

-Why memorize the music? If they aren't doing a good job at knowing the fingerings, not having the music in front of them isn't going to matter. I don't like memorizing things and I've never had a problem. The best part of playing the tuba is your whole left hand can be free to hold the music--use it that way.

-Set a good example by example, and perhaps if people aren't being pushed to do things they'll look around and see you and seek to learn or emulate.

-If you're all old enough, tuba players are supposed to drink beer and it can go a long way to easing social tensions within the section.

-Don't forget God gave you a tuba for a reason, he could have given you a flute.

Just my thoughts, take from them what you will and don't forget to have fun....and you could always think about shooting flames out of the sousaphones to liven things up a bit!

Rob

[TUBAD83]

A question for the forum--especially for those who think marching band has nothing to do with performing music: What would it be like if marching band did not exist--not in high school or college? How many of us would have played tuba at all if there was no such thing as a marching band?? Think about it.

JJ

[TUbajohn20J]

A question for the forum--especially for those who think marching band has nothing to do with performing music: What would it be like if marching band did not exist--not in high school or college? How many of us would have played tuba at all if there was no such thing as a marching band?? Think about it.

JJ

Not me! I was always attracted to those big sousaphones when I was a kid

[Arkietuba]

In my experience those 3 guys you mentioned would've dropped out in band camp...guessing they didn't from what you said.

Honestly, it's sounding like you are complaining about something in which you have no control over. If it's up to you director and you are honestly concerned, ask if your tuba professor/instructor/low-brass guy/brass-guy or whoever can sit in on these auditions or whatever. I'm sure your director doesn't just take horrible players. Our director thinks that if they really want to be in marching band, great, we'll take them. We aren't all about putting "holders" out there. We put musicians out there, and they range from all levels of ability. We had a saxophone player that wanted to march sousa and for a while we needed more sousas so we took him and he ended up being one of our better rookies since he passed off everything and played during the loud sections of the music. He didn't play all the time but he didn't hinder us. If these guys are hindering you (and I've been there) you go ask to help these guys out, if that doesn't work, go to the director, if that doesn't help...well you are kinda s.o.l. You learn to deal with it and make the best of it and maybe they'll drop out...however, if it's someone that just can't read music or isn't a good player but they really love marching band and work hard...you keep them! We have a guy that can barely play but he's got the best attitude about marching band and brings energy!

[tuba_hacker]

so we only had 9 players, guess what the band director had to do, pay people to hold the tubas!! Tubaholders!!!!!!! Us real tuba players didn't have a word in it,

Marching band is as much a visual show as much as it is a musical event. If those three "tuba holders" were not playing (and therefore not detracting from the musicality), what is the harm?

[Matt G]

I find it funny that so many folks are so serious about marching band. Many schools (correctly) put the marching band under the athletic program. I was in marching band to meet womenz, drink heavily, and get my stipend. We had a lot of fun, played some great stuff, and learned a new show every week. The band camp before school started was extra fun, since it consisted of trying to manage drinking to capacity every night and then returning at 8 am in FL August heat to perform drill.

Maybe today's college students are so hard core about marching band because they don't have enough ensembles on campus for the majors they had? Out of nearly 20 players during my time, I was a music ed major, there was a minor or two, and that was it. And our section was very strong, comparably, to other bands in FL and the Southeast at the time.

Again, most people are there for the hang. Getting to play some decent tunes and making some basic progress should be the goal, along with having fun. However, my college band would play tunes from Queen, AC/DC, Jimmy Buffet (Let's Get Drunk and Screw), and other contemporary stuff. It was geared (at the time, I believe they still have the same goals) to have fun. If the band is having fun on the field, the crowd will know it. When we visited FSU in '95 or so, the home crowd gave us a standing ovation. While FSU has a fine program, they were (don't know about now) a very traditional (block formations, two-step marches) marching band. We were in there doing rock 'n roll, running around, and having fun. The crowd, which was a great crowd because FSU's band was good enough to stick around for, was very receptive to our style. We worked no harder than FSU, carried far few music majors, and still managed to entertain. The people are there to see a game, and the halftime should reflect the atmosphere.

It seems that many of the current schools take the marching band very seriously. Maybe they should since so many resources ($$$$$) and academics (PhD's, GradAsses, and TAs) are allocated. As mentioned earlier, many of the big schools don't have enough ensembles to support 10 or more tuba majors, so many of them have to do MB for a large ensemble credit.

Marching band is serious business, just like the internet.

[Rick Denney]

A question for the forum--especially for those who think marching band has nothing to do with performing music: What would it be like if marching band did not exist--not in high school or college? How many of us would have played tuba at all if there was no such thing as a marching band?? Think about it.

No thought required. I was attracted to the sound I was able to make on a tuba. This was in 7th grade, and we didn't march until 10th grade in our district. Marching had no part in the decision at all.

Marching band was always a season to be endured. I did my best, and was not bad at it, but I always looked forward to concert season and playing more interesting music.

But my reason for getting into band in general (vis a vis choosing the tuba) was as much as anything motivated by the fact that being in band exempted me from PE. That alone was worth enduring marching band--I was utterly inept at skill sports and suffered a lot of bullying at the hands of those who usually found me to be in their way. And those who were good at those sports seemed also to be the people who were most likely to be aggressive towards those who were not. Sports in school is and always has been a haven for bullies, with at least tacit approval from the coaches in charge. Band was a welcome relief from that environment.

It was a non-issue for me in college. To be in the marching band at Texas A&M, one needed to be in the Corps of Cadets. That was never in the cards for me, and certainly not just so I could be in that band, which had hazing rituals much worse than what I was avoiding in high-school PE. But I enjoyed my year in the symphonic band, and got exposed to a whole different class of tuba player than I had experienced before that time.

Rick "who didn't discover endurance sports until college, but was really inept at those, too" Denney

[TexTuba]

How many of us would have played tuba at all if there was no such thing as a marching band?? Think about it.

JJ

I started playing the tuba in sixth grade not knowing what a marching band was. Marching band is not everything. Think about it.

[TexTuba]

How many of us would have played tuba at all if there was no such thing as a marching band?? Think about it.

JJ

I started playing the tuba in sixth grade not knowing what a marching band was. Marching band is not everything. Think about it.

Well if you say that, you can also say that many of us didnt know a thing about a symphony orchestra, I know I didnt - and look at all the time people spend doing that... maybe that should be thought about? What really is different about a symphony orchestra or even just a regular band?

It is obvious we will never see eye to eye on this subject. I did marching band in high school and that was enough for ME. There are folks like yourself and JJ who come onto this site and act as if you have to be the defenders of marching band. You may not mean to, but it sure does come off that way at times.

The bottom line is that it not your job to wonder what is needed of freshmen. That is your teacher's job or your band director's. If this displeases you, then you should consider going to a larger school with a larger pool of students. The people in the stands do not give a damn about three tuba players or whoever you think is holding the group back. The marching band is simply entertainment before the game, during the game, and at halftime. To think that it is anything more is foolish.

[pierso20]

The bottom line is that it not your job to wonder what is needed of freshmen. That is your teacher's job or your band director's. If this displeases you, then you should consider going to a larger school with a larger pool of students. The people in the stands do not give a damn about three tuba players or whoever you think is holding the group back. The marching band is simply entertainment before the game, during the game, and at halftime. To think that it is anything more is foolish.

Exactly! We do what we can in the context of our environment and our duties but it is not our job to challenge our "boss". I know the director at Alma and I'll say it again, he is not as interested in having a well polished amazing marching band. He has other priorities and beliefs, and I would say that in such a small school just having the a marching band is enough of a concern. I would seriously consider backing off of the issue and just enjoy the band. You picked a small college to attend and this is one of the con's of it. If it is too much to bear, then leave. Otherwise, enjoy the pros you find of being at the particular school.

To the other comment:

I am about to go one step further......

The marching band is simply entertainment before the game, during the game, and at halftime. To think that it is anything more is foolish.

the football game itself is simply entertainment, to think that it is anything more is foolish....

HOWEVER for many people, the game is a huge part of their life and their enjoyment.

For others, music and, in this case, marching band is a huge part of their life and enjoyment (whether participating or being a spectators).

No matter how you look at it, it is ALL entertainment. The fact is, many parents go to see the football game to support their kids, whether the LIKE FOOTBALL (or any sport for that matter) at all. And, many parents/friends etc. go to the game to support their band kids whether they like band/marchingband/or FOOTBALL. And even further, without cheerleaders/the band, announcers etc. you can still have a football game, but these things add to the experience.

Just another bit to chew on, eh?

[TexTuba]

Just another bit to chew on, eh?

Now that is just blasphemy here in Texas!!

[TUBAD83]

It is obvious we will never see eye to eye on this subject. I did marching band in high school and that was enough for ME. There are folks like yourself and JJ who come onto this site and act as if you have to be the defenders of marching band. You may not mean to, but it sure does come off that way at times.

The marching band is simply entertainment before the game, during the game, and at halftime. To think that it is anything more is foolish.

Well there is the perception that the symphony orchestra is just entertainment for rich old white people listening to the same old music written by some dead white men 200+ years ago.

I am not attacking orchestras but just stating what I have been hearing over the years and, lets be honest, there is a bit of truth to it.

My point: when it comes down to it, its ALL entertainment--and to each his own.

JJ

[OOMPAH]

--

[Rick Denney]

Well there is the perception that the symphony orchestra is just entertainment for rich old white people listening to the same old music written by some dead white men 200+ years ago.

I usually hear such statements from rich young white kids who haven't heard enough of it to claim that it's the same old anything. They do, however, often listen to extremely monotonous hip-hop that repeats the same old themes over and over again ad infinitum.

The first time I heard Beethoven's 5th (I was maybe age 8 at the time), it blew me away. I ripped off a cassette from the library and listened to it until it wore out, on an ultra-cheap Radio Shack monaural cassette player. Yes, that music was an old war horse to rich old white men, but it was new to me.

I was exposed to orchestra music in a school concert conducted by the Houston Symphony. I was in elementary school--perhaps the fourth or fifth grade--and even though I don't remember what they played I remember being deeply impressed by the experience.

In band, what kept me coming back was the music.

Rick "who enjoyed marching band and going to football games, but for whom such did not feed the soul" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Marching band isn't your cup of tea then don't do it, but why put down those who do it and try to do it well.

That wasn't the response I saw. What I saw was that the OP didn't have the authority to impose his reverence for marching band on his band mates, and therefore attempting to do so was likely only to frustrate both he and his mates.

And I saw the suggestion to go where it is taken sufficiently seriously to suit the OP, if it is truly that important to him. I'd say the same for a kid who was focused on orchestral music but at a college that didn't have an orchestra or an opportunity to study with a bona fide orchestra pro.

Neither of those perspectives are putting it down, it seems to me.

Rick "thinking we hear what we want to hear" Denney

[Arkietuba]

I like how these threads get spun off into other tangents

At our school, which is about a mid-size college (13,000+ students) we get all kinds of tuba players ranging from the best in the state to people who can barely keep a buzz going or know which foot to step off with...it's something you're gonna have to deal with and you can't just kick them out because they aren't good. They are there, USUALLY, because they love to march and you shouldn't kick anyone out of marching band if they like it. They may not march in step or play the right notes but does anyone ever give a "perfect" performance all the time? We all mess up and we can't come down on those who mess up more than the section leaders. You work with them as much as you can to help them out and if that doesn't work...well...you're s.o.l.

Now, if you go to a private school (and I can't imagine one with a marching band) you may have a good reason to kick someone out but it shouldn't be left up to the discression of the section leader. The band director is there for a reason and if you're lucky, you have a brass instructor or winds instructor and they know their stuff too...you are a student and shouldn't decide who's worthy to be in the section. I think that's just the wrong way to approach it...like many have said (including myself), if it's a legitimate problem go to the director or tuba instructor or whoever is in charge. They will probably just tell you to suck it up and deal with it.

I know how you feel because there was nothing I could do to reach this guy we had but God love him...he tried but just didn't know how to listen or march on the right foot. I was very frustrated but you just have to grin and bear it and make the best of it. I guarantee no one in the stands is going to notice 1-2 people not marching/playing "perfectly" unless you only have like 10 people total in your band (which we have some of those in AR for some reason).

[TCtubaKingConn00]

Even in high school people suck at tuba some people just aren't meant to play tuba or dedicated enough to be good or even okay. Sometimes size does matter playing tuba, we have this one freshman so small he can't handle it.

[SousaSaver]

Everyone, I need your opinions on what you would consider to be necessary for an incoming freshman tuba/sousaphone player.

In the past here at my college, there seems to be quite the difference in quality of tuba players, it's usually 50-50 - one player is good enough to be at the college level, the other probably should invest their time elsewhere...


A little history on some people I have dealt with:
A guy claimed he could play with the best, but had only recently (in less than a year) picked up the tuba, without lessons and joined in on by far one of the hardest drills and set of music I have experience. Suffice to say he dropped even before our first game - never memorized music like he said he had, couldnt play without blatting, couldnt tongue at all, never heard of or seen a sousaphone before, let alone hold one. Never practiced either

Another guy couldnt read notes on a page just knew the fingerings which he wrote in on all his music, had to use a stool to support himself while practicing indoor with the sousaphone (the rest of us stood). Couldnt play any louder than mezzo forte. Also never practiced, even when I waited around for him to show up during a time when he said he would be practicing. also happened with the guy above.

A final guy also had never really played the sousaphone, he practiced, but never learned anything - once he said he had practiced ten hours that week, but still didnt have the music ( the music that we had had for about 3 weeks) memorized. Couldnt play about the C in the staff, also couldnt play louder than a mezzo forte.


So what is your view on the knowledge an incoming freshman should have in order to keep up with the college level playing?

That is completely unexceptable from those 3 players. If this was on a collegiate level they should have been told that they aren't cutting it, and that they should move on. Usually colligate groups are formed by some form of audition, that would help you screen stuff like that. In college the students should know all the fingerings, have a range that at least covers that states all-state range (or real close to it) but perferably more, and they should have enough technique to keep up well.

(For marching band) Maybe in a perfect world, but this isn't always the case. In situations where you don't have enough people who want to do it, sometimes you take who you can get. I think that many places like the one I described take on people who aren't stellar and hope that they will catch up. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. At the very least, you have enough players to complete your charts.

This is entirely different for schools where players are beating down the door to be there. THEN you can be choosy, otherwise you might end up with no band at all.

I think it amounts to putting the people in leadership positions that can motivate people and help those who need it the most. Another option is grading players on something other than attendance. I recall having memorization tests in college marching band.

For concert bands, the educators can and should be more choosy. Every collegiate band I played in had an audition, no question about it.

[TexTuba]

Way to necro, guys.....