Taking a tuba apart...how-to DIY

[tubatom91]

My repair man is dragging his feet with my current conversion project, I want to start mocking this tuba up. I am planing to do some brace removal with a small propane torch (big blue tank with a screw on torch). I know you need heat, I'm not that "in the dark" but basically I want to know how to take the bows apart without destroying anything or permanently damaging the horn and valve set.

FWIW, I have a larger propane torch with adjustable gas flow and air flows. I even have access to an Oxygen-Acetylene torch but I HIGHLY doubt that that will be necessary.

[Tuba Guy]

I'm in the same boat-this is something that I would like to have at least a little experience with.
A big suggestion-there's probably a chance you will do something to make your horn unplayable. You should probably get a little experience on something that isn't your good horn

[tubatom91]

this isn't my good horn . I had good luck taking a few braces off of the 20K valve set, and taking a branch off, continuing with the 21J body now. Not taking bows off quite yet. Sounds like a great flushing and cleaning opportunity is a-coming.

[The Big Ben]

I've looked into this and decided that I was gonna let Dan O. work on my horns...

Nevertheless.....

Check out Ferree's Tools:

http://www.ferreestools.com/" target="_blank

They have everything you might want to work on horns.

They list some used torches at what appears to be a reasonable price:

http://www.ferreestools.com/used_national_torches.htm" target="_blank

Hardware store propane torches are good 'general use' tools. I think you need a proper torch with the proper sized tip to do this job. If you already have access to oxy/acytelene tank and hoses, a proper torch and tip shouldn't be too expensive.

If you want to give soldering on horns a try, get an eBay trumpet. Take it apart and then put it back together again. That should show you a lot.

Have a look at Dan O.'s site and see what is involved doing this sort of stuff:

http://www.oberloh.com" target="_blank

[imperialbari]

this isn't my good horn

At leat no longer.

K

[DavidK]

A plain hardware store propane torch should be ok for disassembly.
Be mindful to try and heat the large joints evenlt all the way around and avoid scorching the finish (if that is a concern)

Label everything as you go! Especially the large vs small end of ferrules - those can be hard to distinguish. Try using an arrow pointing to the large end, like following the air and sound toward the bell of the horn. Lots of similar sized, small braces could become quite a puzzle to unravel at a later date.

Reassembly? Practice a lot! Good fit, clean surface prep are critical.

Good luck.

[Rick Denney]

You can take it apart with a plain propane torch. Move the flame a lot and don't let anything get much hotter than it takes to soften the solder. If you heat it up too much, in addition to burning the lacquer more severely, you'll run the risk of annealing the brass. The repair tech may want to do that for some operation, but better for him to do it on purpose than for you to do it by accident.

The bows with two solder joints are the most difficult, because you have to get two joints hot enough to soften the solder, and they start to cool from the instant you remove the flame.

Rick "suspecting you already know the risks" Denney

[tubatom91]

valve set is removed, easy as pie. The bows are remaining for now, I was desoldering a piece from the 20k valve set using a vice to hold it in place as I needed both hands. The set took a rough tumble and hit the floor, it landed squarely on the valves, repairman bound....

Tuba "extraordinarily unhappy with himself" Tom

[oedipoes]

this isn't my good horn

At leat no longer.

K

This is my idea of 'cutting' a horn from BBb to CC... and why I stay with BBb !

[Lee Stofer]

As long as you learn from your mistakes and successes, it is a good thing, particularly if nothing is permanently damaged.

There is an art to all this. If you wish to make life easier for you and your repairman, be sure and take a cloth, and wipe all the remaining solder off the branch ends. With a little practice, you can heat an area and then wipe it clean. This will help immensely when you are assembling parts for the mock-up stage. Also, if you take emery cloth and Super Fine 0000 steel wool and clean off the burnt lacquer, this will make the reassembly and cleanup go a lot faster for your repairman.

To learn about this stuff, you have to start somewhere. I pulled apart a Pan American Eb tuba as my first project.

[Tubadork]

ok, I guess I have to be the bad guy, but if you are planning on using this horn as a player, DON"T DO THIS.
If you are planning on making this a beater tuba just to fool around on and possibly destroy or get it to the point where a repair guy might not touch it, go for it.
Have patience, repair guys don't make money on conversions, for most it's a losing prospect and if you are going to add to his hours of work by taking this apart and him having to clean up your work sounds like bad news to me.

Imagine if you will, you took your car apart and brought it to a mechanic, he would most likely tell you to get lost.
Bill

[tubatom91]

FWIW, my repairman is an "on the side" kinda guy, he doesn't repair for a living just for fun. Also the lacquer was stripped prior to torch work, it was patchy and scratched, I polished the brass underneath so the scratches into the brass are not quite as evident. Turned out very well.

[tubatom91]

Diagnosis on valveset: Pistons 2&3 are bent...being straighten to best of repairman's ability.
method for straighten: his day job is in a machine shop, he's going to make a steel cylinder on a lathe the exact diameter of the piston, the piston will be driven through it to straighten it.

The bows were taken apart today and fairly easily. minor discoloration from heating but I didn't burn the hell out of it. I cleaned the old solder from the bow joints and slapped them together, it was actually pretty fun. I now just have to get the valveset finished and then put it together and see if it plays...at all

[Mike-ICR]

Diagnosis on valveset: Pistons 2&3 are bent...being straighten to best of repairman's ability.
method for straighten: his day job is in a machine shop, he's going to make a steel cylinder on a lathe the exact diameter of the piston, the piston will be driven through it to straighten it.

DON'T DO IT! There are a few ways to do this but the way you describe is NOT one of them. If he does it then you'll have to buy new pistons. Take the slide tubes off the casings and send the casings and valves to a tech with the proper tools. Even if your friend wants to buy the tools I still wouldn't let him do it. Doing it properly takes time and practice.

[Dan Schultz]

Diagnosis on valveset: Pistons 2&3 are bent...being straighten to best of repairman's ability.
method for straighten: his day job is in a machine shop, he's going to make a steel cylinder on a lathe the exact diameter of the piston, the piston will be driven through it to straighten it.

The bows were taken apart today and fairly easily. minor discoloration from heating but I didn't burn the hell out of it. I cleaned the old solder from the bow joints and slapped them together, it was actually pretty fun. I now just have to get the valveset finished and then put it together and see if it plays...at all

Don't try to straighten a piston that way! The pistons can probably be straightened if they are just slightly bent by using a piston sleeve. I think perhaps their use is described on the Ferree's website. It involves a special tool... lots of heat... a bucket of water... and a bit of knowing what you are doing.

Another method might be for your 'toolmaker' friend to make a sleeve that's just slightly larger than the piston will fit into out of tool steel. Harden the sleeve. Place the piston inside and tap the sleeve on the outside while holding it lightly in your hand. This will cause the piston to 'bang' against the inside of the sleeve. This too takes a little practice.

By-the-way.... that sleeve has to be ground smooth on the inside. I would suggest grinding it to size AFTER heat treating it.

[Dan Schultz]

..... I then remembered also that not only Dan Shultz A.K.A. TubaTinker has some used pistons but also my friend here in California John Thomas.....

It's true that I DO have some used pistons and such for those short action tubas and sousas. But... do you know what happens is I sell those used 20/22K sousa pistons? Well.... if I need some in the future, I have to shell out over $150 each for 'em. If I sell the used 20J pistons, I can't EVER buy any new ones. Long story made short..... I seldom sell rare USED parts because in my opinion, they are worth just as much as new ones.... MORE if they can't be replaced.

[The Big Ben]

I really want to see your project “Fly”. I’m disgusted by all the neigh Sayers. (Which by the way is the name of a local rock band)
good luck, Happy honkin'

I wouldn't call myself a naysayer. I just think a guy should think this kind of thing out completely to avoid turning something that works into a big pile of junk.

If a person has little experience in delicate metalwork, it might be a good idea to get some instruction. If a specifically brass instrument class is not available, the skills learned in a jewelry making class could useful.

[SplatterTone]

As long as we are being creative ...
Turn (or cast?) and drill some kind of polymer rod, perhaps?
Cedar does not expand in the presence of moisture. Don't know how well it slides or reacts to valve oil. Probably not too well.
Wood wrapped with brass sheet?