20J as Budget BAT

[WakinAZ]

I've been itching for a larger horn for a while now, but not exactly flush with cash, so I recently acquired a Conn 20J as a budget BAT. I was a little apprehensive since reports about the response and sound of these horns sometimes characterize them as "wooly" or "fuzzy" or "unfocused". Not for this guy. I liked the sound well enough from the start with my standard middle-of-the-road mouthpiece, the Blessing 18, and then I plugged in my Conn Helleberg - bingo! Massive sound I can't overblow (yet), nice tone that is a focused as I would expect from a 6/4 horn, and intonation as good or better than any other 3 valve horn make this one likely to be my main axe this concert season. Usable pedal register false tones will be fun also. This one can play softly too.

The only problem was any note with the first valve sounded buzzy like there was a loose brace or an air leak. At first I thought it was misaligned valves, so I had my local tech put new felts and corks and align the valves - dang, same problem. Then I started very closely inspecting the first valve tubing and discovered a hairline crack going about a third of the way around the upper bend. A couple of wraps of electrical tape and the buzz is gone. What a relief. I'll get it soldered when I feel like having it in the shop again.

Photo courtesy of the former owner.

DSC03813.JPG

Eric "enjoying a new toy" L.

[tubatom91]

good to hear that a good old tuba is getting used and being used well. I hope you really enjoy the season on this BAT

[TUbajohn20J]

I know exactly what you mean. These are great horns and I too can't understand why a lot of people frown upon them. I love mine and I KNOW you will too this upcoming concert season. You could consider getting an upright bell for it or having it converted to an upright like I did mine. Just so you won't stick out at concerts! NICE HORN! You know what I mean when I say the low register sounds like the voice of God on these horns. Have fun with it, and NEVER sell it.-John

[pwhitaker]

I recently bought one from "Bloke" with the top loaded valves and a recording bell. It plays nearly as well as my 5/4 Rudy does and after using it in a variety of gigs (trios, parades, indoor trad jazz concerts) it's going to be my permanent horn that lives in the Scion Xb and goes to gigs. It is a heavy sucker, but the Baltimore Brass tuba stand handles it very nicely. My colleagues have commented on it's nice tone. The short stroke valves are VERY fast along with excellent intonation and great bell and pedal tones. What more could one ask for? I would use this horn in a brass quintet if I ever played in one again, which isn't likely given the current state of my vision. I am now practicing at home on the Rudy and performing with the Conn. The horns are very close in response and tuning so this works well for me, plus I don't subject the Rudy to the risk and rigors of transportation.

[HGillespie]

In the WAC Band, 35 years ago we played these things. We used a stand. It was the only way to sit lady-like and play. (Straddling a tuba in a uniform skirt wasn't a pretty sight -even in my younger/slimmer years.) I didn't like them at the time. Playing while sitting at attention was...well...weird. Who knows....perhaps it's time to revisit.

How do you find these for musical expression other than strong sound?

[Wyvern]

Writing this while staying in Michigan, I have got to play my friend's 26J (front valve) Conn. I was not expecting to like, going from what I have often read of these tubas previously on TubeNet, but am impressed. Great big fat tone in the low register, a better high register than I expected and can certainly be played quietly with finesse without problem. My friend has both upright and recording bell and to me the sound seems even better with the latter (even if unfashionable). I am looking forward to playing the 26J (with recording bell) in concert over here next week.

BTW Look out for my report of of Conn Jumbo sousaphone trio in concert (with pictures) I will post when have the time (now off to Chicago)

[WakinAZ]

... How do you find these for musical expression other than strong sound?

Too soon to tell. Others have reported these being a one-trick pony of sorts (big/loud), but within the limits of expression required of a community band tuba player, I think I'll be fine. I feel I can play musically on any horn that is mechanically sound and has a decent scale, be it a jumbo sousa or a small eefer.

(Tangent: Our band does strive for musical expression, not just notes, and we manage to fill a decent-sized high school auditorium to capacity at $9 a head for every concert. Yes, we actually charge admission. It is our good fortune to be one of the premier groups in a retirement community, so we have the right demographic that enjoys concert band literature, orchestral transcriptions, Broadway tunes, etc. That said, I worry for the future when our audience will not be the last of the WWII generation and baby boomers, but folks of my era. When we have to play Metallica medleys, I will probably hang it up.)

Eric "wielding the velvet hammer" L.

[pierso20]

Writing this while staying in Michigan

Michigan is a fun place. What cities are you traveling to?

[ztuba]

Depends on if you are trying to win auditions or just screw around.

[Matt G]

Depends on if you are trying to win auditions or just screw around.

Depends on what level of auditions you are talking about.

I had a student who got a good youth orchestra spot playing a 20J. They make a good sound with medium effort for young players.

The 20J seems to be popular, in terms of total sold, because it had a decent enough scale, really big sound, and was easy to transport. The two case situation made things easy to deal with, and upright valves kept the valves safe in tuba stands, since Wenger seemingly subsidized the sale of these tubas to get their own tuba stands sold, at least in later years.

Conn did offer the front action units, but were far too large for young students to handle (imagine a 12yo trying to handle the CSO York). Horns that big weren't all that popular with professionals when the 20J was in its heyday, as most used 4/4 and 5/4-sized rotary-valved contrabasses.

I imagine that if Conn did have the tooling and time to offer a 25J (I think that's the upright bell, front action, four valve unit) they would sell only in limited amounts.

[TUbajohn20J]

Depends on if you are trying to win auditions or just screw around.

What is this supposed to mean? I know you don't mean you can't win auditions with a 20J. I brought the 20J to TMEA (Texas) All-Area tryouts and made 5A all state with it and then took it to San Antonio to the convention to play it at the Concert! So please don't say you can't win auditions on a 20J. The judges obviously thought otherwise.

[pierso20]

Depends on if you are trying to win auditions or just screw around.

What is this supposed to mean? I know you don't mean you can't win auditions with a 20J. I brought the 20J to TMEA (Texas) All-Area tryouts and made 5A all state with it and then took it to San Antonio to the convention to play it at the Concert! So please don't say you can't win auditions on a 20J. The judges obviously thought otherwise.

I think the obvious intention of the comment was that you likely won't win a professional orchestra audition with that horn. Now, I wonder is it because the horn won't sound or do what it should or because a professional auditioning will likely be playing a different more modern horn...

[TUbajohn20J]

I see what you mean now, but I still see no reason why a 2XJ can't win an orchestral audition. Unless the judge only judges you by the tuba you bring to the audition..because he was expecting a more "professional" horn. The sound of these horns are amazing and with the right player, they can be played in whatever scenario comes at them.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

....win auditions or just screw around.

Are these the only two choices for a music career?

[The Big Ben]

Depends on if you are trying to win auditions or just screw around.

There is a middle ground, you know...

[Wyvern]

Listening to the Joliet American Legion Band at the Wheaton Band Festival yesterday well demonstrated what a great foundation these tubas can provide to a band in the hands of a good player.

I would not swap my Mel Culbertson Neptune for one of these for orchestral playing, but for band use they seem an excellent choice.

[WakinAZ]

It is interesting how opinions on the 2XJ tend to polarize: either folks like them or not. I think this is due to the poor ergonomics, association with school music programs, and more choices in the modern era. While I wouldn't play a 3v bell front for orchestra, I would use a 4v bell up model if I wanted a large tuba sound and couldn't afford a Fafner or Rudy. (I doubt if anyone other than the bass trombonist would even notice that your valves and bell were on the "wrong" side.) For under $1000 for a 3v bell front and $2000-2500 for 4v up bell, they are a good deal for a 6/4 horn.

I use a Tuba Tamer stand, so the ergonomics issue is moot for me. I love focusing 100% on making music and 0% on holding the horn. Page turns are not a problem, either. It makes 2 trips from the car worth it.

While I may not earn my living as a musician, I take my music and my equipment seriously.

Eric "not 'screwing around' " L.

[TUBAD83]

I know exactly what you mean. These are great horns and I too can't understand why a lot of people frown upon them. I love mine and I KNOW you will too this upcoming concert season. You could consider getting an upright bell for it or having it converted to an upright like I did mine. Just so you won't stick out at concerts! NICE HORN! You know what I mean when I say the low register sounds like the voice of God on these horns. Have fun with it, and NEVER sell it.-John

Some kids sneer or look down their noses at them (of course demonstrating their LACK of knowledge about these great horns) But the old guys who know LOVE em. By the way, keep the recording bell and let people know EXACTLY where that glorious sound is coming from--hell, you're a tuba player so you should be used to sticking out from the crowd by now!

JJ "Love how my 24" recording bell catches the stage lights"

[pittbassdaddy]

For what I paid for it, my 20j is the best horn I could ask for. Its not perfect, cosmetically or ergonomically, but it has the sound that I want from an inexpensive Bb tuba.

[MileMarkerZero]

I learned to play the tuba on a 20j when I was in 9th grade. If I could find a 4-banger on the cheap, I'd seriously consider it. Yes, they can be played very musically. If you have the breath control to play a pp on a 20j, you can do it on any horn. As I remember it, the 20j I played had as good or better dynamic possibilities as any horn I've played without sacrificing any tone quality. In addition, it's an easy blow at the big dynamics - it's really efficient at making the conductor's face bleed. For me, I like the big Conns better then the big Holtons in terms of being able to play them with a large dynamic range. The big Holtons seem to suck the breath out of you, where the Conns seem to allow you to be a little more relaxed.

Dick Maloof did a really good job with a big ol' Martin...same concept, different maker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WCMzRLov58