OK, it's settled: brass vs. fiberglass

[iiipopes]

A length of 5/16 plastic tubing slit lengthwise and fit around the bell wire does the same thing for @$1.25 at your local home improvement store, and provides bell ding protection to boot. I'll stick with brass.

[46K]

_

[imperialbari]

My first reaction is that the huge amount of metal in the brass bells activates the antennas in your hearing aids.

Brass shall be better than plastic, but more brass doesn’t necessarily give better results. Several years ago we had a thread on the old TubeNet, but I don’t know how to find that thread about a sousaphone becoming noisy after having its bell creases straightened.

My point was that a 24" bell with a large throat like on my Conn 40K doesn’t ring whether a 24" bell with a moderate throat like on my Conn 26K has a bell afterglow.

Since then I have acquired a Conn 28K 18 years younger than the 26K made out of thinner post-WWII metal. That 28K can play very beautifully. Did so when I started using my blokepiece on it this winter. Then it was set up to be played on a stand with me sitting outside the main circle.

Since then I turned the bell for normal around the torso playing. And I went plain rotten because the C harmonic series fingered 12 started to give a very loud ringing making a high E very audible.

The reason there was no ringing in the former bell position must have been a tension created by not placing the male collar optimally inside the female collar. The horrible thing is that no experiments have let me recreate that tension. Yet.

Klaus

[MartyNeilan]

I picked up a Conn 20K that is in really good shape, installed its bell, played it, and got all of that annoying "feedback"...ringing, extraneous noise, etc...and the sound was a bit harsh. I stuck a 22K (fiberglass) bell on it, and all of that extraneous b.s. was gone - like a light switch. The sound was clear, focused, round, and not-at-all "plastic"-sounding.

Not trying to question the repair chops of an expert, but is there any chance the bell wire could have been loose on the brass horn?

[imperialbari]

Part of the, in this case positive, tension is about one or both collars not being perfectly round. I can imagine ways to recreate that tension in positions chosen for a better playing position or for a better viewing of music, road, fellow players, and/or conductor. Only these ways have inherent risks of splitting the female collar.

Klaus

[Donn]

The sound was clear, focused, round, and not-at-all "plastic"-sounding.

I have to discount plastic-sounding as a descriptive term, having no idea what it means. The rest - clear, focused, round - fit perfectly with my impression of fiberglass/plastic sousaphones, and I don't recall that it's controversial.

When you assert that fiberglass is as good as brass, you have to convince people who believe that even the kind of brass affects the sound. This is evidently all about higher frequency resonance, as you can clearly determine by smacking a tuba and listening to it resonate. I personally am in the skeptic's camp - for me, there could be no better proof of the irrelevance of brass alloy composition than the existence of a reasonable sounding fiberglass tuba - but no one should have any reason to care what I think.

The way to settle this, is to take it to the orchestra. Maybe you'll want to cut one of those fiberglass things to CC, if it would be awkward to switch to BBb for your orchestra gigs. I would suggest black and white decor, with a little bow tie painted on somewhere.

[imperialbari]

The best way to avoid weight problems from marching a sousaphone was not invented by me. A certain professional tubist marched a trombone through his high school years. He told us so here on TubeNet.

Klaus

[windshieldbug]

"Sounds" to me like silver vrs. lacquer vrs. raw brass...

It may be one thing to the player, being so near, but another thing entirely out in the hall.

[TUBAD83]

Fiberglass WINS, hands-down.

I picked up a Conn 20K that is in really good shape, installed its bell, played it, and got all of that annoying "feedback"...ringing, extraneous noise, etc...and the sound was a bit harsh. I stuck a 22K (fiberglass) bell on it, and all of that extraneous b.s. was gone - like a light switch. The sound was clear, focused, round, and not-at-all "plastic"-sounding.

This may very well work for you bloke but I must respectfully beg to differ. Having heard bands with fiberglass tubas compete against bands with brass tubas, having witnessed hs concert bands who were foolish enough to take fiberglass souzies to contest (and watching the judges trying not burst out laughing) I must say there is NO way fiberglass could ever be a serious contender to brass. No competent band director would allow those plastic horns in his/her bandroom. I have played on one once and that was more than enough and have used a Conn 20K on the football/parade field, for indoor and outdoor concerts, and for plenty of parades with great success. A well maintained 20K will blow away a fiberglass horn every time.

JJ

[Dan Schultz]

The bells on my Conn 'Jumbos' are STILL ringing... FOUR DAYS after 'Jumbo Summit 2009'! That's right, folks.... sitting there on their stands in my music room... and still ringing!

All joking aside, Joe.... I tend to agree with you.

[cjk]

13.

Too bad you can't get a fiberglass Thor.

[Tuba Guy]

Actually...I seem to remember talking to Chuck Daellenbach once and him mentioning a fiberglass (or was it carbon fiber) bell for the CB50

[Dan Schultz]

Actually...I seem to remember talking to Chuck Daellenbach once and him mentioning a fiberglass (or was it carbon fiber) bell for the CB50

Yup. There was also a European company called Glassl (sp?) but I haven't heard anything about them for a while. Goodgigs was (is) also working on a plastic tuba. I found an old thread here http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/apr2002 ... 92959.html but the link to the Glassl information didn't work.

I think it's quite a good idea but the tooling to mold a tuba has GOT to be expensive... or there is a lot of handwork involved. Dollars up front for tooling or dollars for finishing labor. Take your pick.

[Funcoot]

No competent band director would allow those plastic horns in his/her bandroom.

Can we not agree that, that was a bit harsh? There are many school districts who are pretty much broke, "running on empty," you could say. For these schools, fiberglass sousaphones are god sends. You can't really say a band directory isn't "competent," because they simply can't afford them.

If it's one thing I learned, a bands repairs are never done. Something is always broke/damages/dinged, and needs repairs.

[sloan]

Actually...I seem to remember talking to Chuck Daellenbach once and him mentioning a fiberglass (or was it carbon fiber) bell for the CB50

Yup - he performed with one for some time. I *think* he's now back to an all-metal 621 for quartet performances but something larger with the carbon fiber bell for ensembles larger than 8 or so. (there may be several inadvertant approximations in the previous sentence...)

[djwesp]

This can't be for reals blokeypoo.

[Donn]

Can we not agree that, that was a bit harsh?

I'll go along with that, but unfortunately you erroneously attributed the quote. At this writing no one has quoted your article, so there's time to fix it.

[joh_tuba]

So if one were in a position to buy a NEW(must be new due to institutional funding reasons) fiberglass sousaphone what would be the consensus choice?

My personal favorite solution was used by one of the DC Air Force bands. The inner brass valve section was silver plated. The fiberglass bell and body were the smooth(not pebble) finish. The body was taken to an auto body shop and spray painted a satin silver. From more than five feet away it looked like a gorgeous satin silver tuba but would never collect dents or tarnish like a real silver tuba. And it's lighter to boot! I'm inclined to believe the sound difference between a fiberglass and brass sousa isn't significant. I think a satin silver fiberglass tuba would make a killing if a marketing guy ran with the idea. It just makes too much sense!

[Mcordon1]

I guess the only mainstream choices are King, Jupiter, Yamaha, and (fairly new to the market under various names) a Communist Chinese copy-of-a-Jupiter-copy-of-a-King/Olds-hybrid.


The Taiwanese under-engineering (flanges and receivers all made of only standard wall thickness material, pot metal waterkeys, etc.) is one thing but the way they play is insult on top of injury. If shopping "metal", for roughly similar dough you can get a Brazilian-made large-bore four-valve sousaphone, or for considerably LESS dough (if you know where to look) you can get a JinBao Communist Chinese certainly-as-well-made-as-Jupiter copy of a Conn 20K.

Where would one find these economical large bore 4 valve sousas?