Back Pain and the Sousaphone.

[Funcoot]

So band camp started yesterday, this was the second day and I can rightfully say that my *** my kicked, but in a good way I guess.

The biggest issue for me isn't my shoulder, it is my back. After about 2 or 3 hours of M&M (marching and maneuvering), my back pretty much goes into pain mode and begins to hurt pretty bad. Of course I don't give up, I'm not gonna be weak. I made it through these past 2 days.

I was just wondering if this was a common issue or not for new poeple. As far as back conditions, I don't have any that I know of, then again I haven't had a check up since I was a little kid and I am now 17.

I know I should go to see a doctor, but I have no insurance, so a check up could end up costing quite a lot, especially if they do find something wrong with me. Guess I'll head up to the free clinic one of these days.

[The Jackson]

Back pain is not something that should be treated as commoonplace. If I was running and gunning with a sousaphone and I felt something that wasn't shoulder pain, I was high-tailing my butt to the sideline. You should not brush this stuff off. I would bite the bullet and go to the doctor if this stuff persists.

[Funcoot]

I'm gonna go one more day, if it is this bad I will ask to have a doctors appointment scheduled.

I would guess my back issues are more or so from years of bad posture rather than from the sousaphone directly. Hopefully the back pain ceases, or at least is treatable and allows me to march sousaphone.

[David Richoux]

When I am doing a long parade or getting ready for a 3 hour gig I try to do a lot of leg, arm and back stretches before hand (and more during any breaks.) Warming up the entire body is just as important as warming up the lips! No matter when the parade or field practice starts - get there early so you can take the time to do it properly. Talk to a trainer or coach to learn the best warm-up moves for you - and be sure to let them know the specific issues you have with carrying your horn. (If your camp does not have an experienced Physical Trainer you may have to find one on your own.)

I also found out (when I was about 40 years old) that I have a lower back problem shared by about 20% of humans - one bone in my lower spinal column is fused to my pelvis (on one side.) There is nothing I can do about it without major back surgery - probably not going to happen - so I have learned to be more careful about being in balance and not making unplanned moves when I am holding my Sousaphone (or tuba.) Failing to do this can mean hours or days of lower back pain, chiropractor visits and time on "The Rack." I must be doing it right, because I have not had a problem in over 10 years (and I am playing just about as much as before.)

[Funcoot]

Yeah, I probably should be warming up a lot more. I mean we do some basic stuff, but nothing really too "good." At least in my opinion.

It's just such a pressure not to wimp out when we have veteran DCI marchers teaching us. I mean they are really nice, but they are people you don't wanna look like wimps in front of. Then you have the stigma of people poking fun at the issue.

I know I shouldn't care though what people think, it's just really hard not to.

[sailn2ba]

Something's not right. Even the big ol' all brass fat valve Conns should not cause problems if the weight is properly distributed. If you continue with pain you will do permanent damage. . . not worth it! Get physical therapy.

[Funcoot]

Sounding like I might have to start marching baritone.

That'll just be embarrassing, not because baritone/euphonium is embarrassing to march.. but people will pretty much poke fun at me constantly and it might put me and my band director on poor terms.


Edit:

I just talked it over with my mom. I will get a physical to make sure every things ok. She suggested that if it's going to bother me that I quit band, but thats a no on my side.

[iiipopes]

Indeed. Yesterday I played all 35 pounds of the 38K souzy for the local Shrine Band opening with the National Anthem at our local AA ballpark. (It was clown night to raise money for the Shriners Childrens Hospitals, and all paid attendence was given a clown nose to wear at the 3rd inning break to try to set the record for number of people wearing a clown nose at the same time. Unofficially, over 3200 had one on at the right time. We are awaiting confirmation to see if it is a record or not.) Now, last week I strained my lower back and right now it hurts when I turn a certain way. I've been to my primary physician and it's only a strain that will work itself out so long as I take things moderately. Of course, being concerned about the souzy, I approached it very carefully. But I found out that, as in decades past, when carried properly, it did not make my back hurt. As a matter of fact, the least my back hurt all day was wearing the souzy the @ 1/2 mile walk back from the ball park to the Shrine to put it away in the band closet.

Check your fundamentals about wearing a souzy. Walk tall, but not stiff. Angle the horn properly and balance the bell properly, as per Tubatinker's photographs on another thread. Make sure the gooseneck and bits are set at the proper angle to bring the mouthpiece to your face, not you going to the mouthpiece. Left hand steadying the horn, right elbow relaxed on the valve block as you play. If it still hurts, see a medical person.

[Dean E]

I agree that stretches are great for avoiding injuries. Swimming and hot tubbing are great relief for general aches and pains, as would be aspirin or other anti-inflammatory substitutes.

For the long run, find time to make the weight room a part of your daily routine. One can specifically develop the trapezius muscles working with a lightly-weighted barbell (held in front of the body with fully extended arms) and shrugging. A Roman Chair is wonderful for strengthening the lower back--but only when you are not experiencing sharp, shooting pains.

Roman Chair
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&h ... rch+images" target="_blank" target="_blank

Just do not overdo the weight room, especially if you feel sharp, shooting pain, often the sign of nerve involvement. If you have a choice of medical personnel, look for someone experienced in sports medicine.

[TubaRay]

You didn't specify which part of you back hurts, but one possibility I have had occur has to do with the kidneys. I was advised to drink plenty of water. I don't know if this connects up to the heat, and possible slight dehydration. Perhaps someone else could shed some light on this possibility. Of course, they may also say I don't know what I'm talking about.

[iiipopes]

Tuba Ray has a good point. My back is hurting around the kidneys, and that's another reason I went to see the doctor. Add stay hydrated to my checklist in my prior post. And the advice is still the same. This is not a "manly" issue. The "manly" issues are discussed in the "No daddy..." thread in the off-topic section. This is a health and safety issue. If it still hurts, go see a competent health care professional.

[Tuba Guy]

In hs, I sometimes had a bit of pain in the bottom of my back. Toward the end of the day, it would start to hurt a bit, and I would stretch. Something that I found makes it feel so much better is to lay down on a hard, flat surface and just let yourself completely relax. It will hurt a ton when you first lay down, but if you do it slowly, you'll feel better when you get back up (at least that's how it works for me)
Also remember to get the freshmen to move your case (you have back pain, remember?)

[Funcoot]

My mid to lower back was in pain. My upper back wasn't so much.

Hydradtion might have been a part of the issue, but I got a feeling it isn't the entire issue.

Tomorrow I will make sure to constantly drink water at every chance, and I will make sure to warm up properly. I will try my best to improve my posture. If anyone can post pictures of a good way to stand, I would appreciate it. I'm gonna go take a shower and go to bed. I'll check back this morning and hope for the best at band camp tomorrow.

[Funcoot]

In hs, I sometimes had a bit of pain in the bottom of my back. Toward the end of the day, it would start to hurt a bit, and I would stretch. Something that I found makes it feel so much better is to lay down on a hard, flat surface and just let yourself completely relax. It will hurt a ton when you first lay down, but if you do it slowly, you'll feel better when you get back up (at least that's how it works for me)
Also remember to get the freshmen to move your case (you have back pain, remember?)

You hit the nail on the head for me basically. I use that solution sparingly though. Something tells me that doing this isn't the best solution. When we would have breaks in side, I would find a chair and sit straight up to try and relive the pain. Moderate success.

[Tuba Guy]

You hit the nail on the head for me basically. I use that solution sparingly though. Something tells me that doing this isn't the best solution. When we would have breaks in side, I would find a chair and sit straight up to try and relive the pain. Moderate success.

If it is the same thing (which it is not necissarily, so don't necissarily use me as an example), in the long run it hasn't caused any problems. I hope.
This was mostly in my sophmore and jr year of high school. At that point, I was using a really heavy Besson sousaphone. My school eventually got a new pair of Jupiter sousas. They played like crap, but were light (I switched because the cases had wheels...). When I started using the lighter horn, it stopped really hurting. And this past year at college, they gave me a 20K. We dance and stand for hours on end, but it doesn't hurt.
For me, it stopped hurting with time, and after going lighter. But that's just me.

[David Richoux]

I have never been to a "Band Camp" - rigorous or otherwise - so I don't know how much really goes on there these days. I did go through the US Navy Boot Camp in 1968, mostly playing in the Drum & Bugle Corps, but I have seen some videos of DCI training and it looks like some pretty high stress situations!

The situation and experience will obviously be different for everybody - we all have varying levels of pain acceptance and body condition, depending on our age, genetics/body type, training, and attitude. I think being pushed "further" and "harder" by sometimes inexperienced volunteer trainers (and/or peer pressure) in high temperature and long work-out sessions can be deadly (or at least injurious.) Also, at 17 you are still probably growing some and your bones & joints are under a lot of different kinds of stresses - not much you can do about that except to be aware of it.

You have to find your own personal levels and work with them - you can probably improve in your conditioning, but don't expect miracles! I am not saying "Give up!" - just learn to know yourself and set your own limits. Work with qualified PT folks to help you find those limits (often the hard part is finding good trainers.)

(I am not an athlete, trainer, psychologist, or any other kind of "authority figure" - just being real... and I never took a Charles Atlas course!

[iiipopes]

This is the thread I talked about earlier for a picture of properly wearing a souzy:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33502&hilit=sousaphone&start=12" target="_blank

Go to the second page of the thread, and Tubatinker has two pictures. The "right" way to wear a souzy is the top or left depending on how your browser works.

[Funcoot]

I would guess my back issues are more or so from years of bad posture rather than from the sousaphone directly. Hopefully the back pain ceases, or at least is treatable and allows me to march sousaphone.

Easy way to improve your posture: Squeeze your butt together and engage your stomach muscles, sucking it in to straighten up your spine. Of course, this shouldn't be done ALL the time; just when you're marching. Any time you're not marching, especially if you're sitting down in a desk for class or something, make sure your lower back has plenty of support; it should actually curve forward quite a bit normally.

Also, make sure you have the proper shoes, especially if you do a lot of running. Even 100 yards or so without shoes that properly support your feet can make your back hurt all day (as I figured out just yesterday), so a full day of marching without good shoes could definitely do some damage.

I did not think of this. I forgot to "hold the grape" or in other words squeeze your butt. I didn't think of the impact my shoes had though. I am wearing an older pair of shoes that really don't have any ankle support, this could be the source of the problem.

[Casey Tucker]

I have had similar problems but have found cures through the right stretches. When I went to the doctor, I was diagnosed with a slipping disc. Other than the physical therapy that I had there are some simple stretches that can be performed to help with the pain.

Start by sitting on the ground with your right leg straight in front of you and your left leg bent with your foot flat on the ground. From here, turn your upper body to the right, placing your left elbow on the outside of your right leg and hold. You should feel the stretch in your lower back. Next, while keeping your left leg straight, pull your right leg up and in. You should start feeling the stretch in your right buttocks. Repeat these stretches with your left leg and so on. Often with a slipped disc you will feel pain in the back and often down one of your legs. This is caused by pinching the sciatic nerve. These stretches should stretch out your spine thus alleviating the pain.

HOWEVER, I will say that I am a TUBA PLAYER and NOT A DOCTOR and my advice is... well, advice. The best idea would be to go to a doctor and if that's not an option try talking to your school's sports trainers (the ones that help the football team). In any case, I hope you find some sort of cure and wish you luck on your WONDERFUL journey with the sousaphone!

-CT

[Rob]

Lots of good advice, thinks to think about, and concerns that you should be seeking more competent help than just Tubenet.

I'll offer up a couple thoughts of my own. Can't say I had issues with the back and playing the sousaphone but when I was younger I did have to deal with a pinched sciatic nerve and there were a couple of things I used to do to help that. It would be interesting to know though whether your pain stops when you're done playing or is there for the rest of the day.

I did find that sleeping on hard surfaces(i.e. the floor) would help keep my body aligned and when the mattress on my bed was ancient and sucked for support this was something that would allow me to get a good nights sleep. The other thing is obviously stretching. There have been some suggestions already but what I remember helping me was to lay down flat on the floor on my back, lift my legs up over my head(kind of like your trying to kiss your ***), and try to touch your toes to the floor above your head. Now, I'm not going to advocate trying something that might hurt you, so you're on your own with this one. I did find(and still do) that this was a good way to stretch the lower back, and you can even do it on the grass of your local field(assuming your not too concerned with how you look).

Building up stronger back muscles will surely help, but one should remember that muscles work in pairs, and the backs complement is the stomach. A stronger stomach will help with a stronger back(and doesn't hurt the posture either).


Again, these are suggestions from a non-qualified individual. What you do with them is up to you.

Good luck,
Rob