A Question for Experienced Dixieland Players...

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Howdy folks,

Due to a strange quirk of fate, I find myself in charge of contracting/leading a 3 hour Dixieland/street fair gig. It wouldn't be strange, except I am not a Dixie kinda guy! My dilemma: I am trying to avoid looking too GREEN!

I am very interested in learning to play Dixieland, which is why I booked the gig, but I need some insights into the practical routines that a band would use on the job. I am going to be chained to a fakebook, but the clarinet/trombone/banjo players are playing w/out the book. They are all way experienced, and I am hoping that they will not feel like they had to "humor" me, when the gig is over.

I am used to contracting bands/quintets/orchestras but I suspect this is quite different!

Specifically:

• 1] Do tuba players actually lead Dixieland groups?
  2] How do you generally start off the tunes, when there is no drummer? Is there a handy formula, like using the last 4 measures as an intro?
  3] What is a good way to finish up the tunes?
  4] Would doing 50 on/15 off/50 on/15 off/50 on give enough break time?

I am all set! I have the striped vests & styro-straw hats! (the most important part, right?).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Michael Grant]

With all due respect to your question, I think you are asking the wrong audience for advice. You already have three players that are way experienced. You should be asking them these questions. You may be the "leader" in the sense as it is your gig but don't let the name "leader" get in the way of a good gig. Rely on the experience you have at your disposal. I am sure they would be happy help you with the length of each set, how to start each tune, etc. If it were me, I would have the clarinetist as the front man. He/she can start and stop each tune, give tempo cues, etc. Since they have the experience you can let them control that while you focus on the fake book, changes, etc.

Good luck and in my humble opinion, the stripe vests and straw hats are the worst part of the gig!

MG

P.S. A good way to finish up the tunes is with a cadence on the I chord. HA!

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your thoughts. Your comments were very well thought out, and much appreciated.

My reason for posting the questions in the first place, is so I can go into the gig prepared. Since there is no rehearsal, there probably won't be too much extra time to work out all of the little details on the spot, so I wanted to come to some reasonable conclusions BEFORE the time we actually have to play. I know from past experiences, that as the organizer, time often evaporates when dealing with the little logistic details, just prior to downbeat time!

I will, of course, take very seriously the opinions, informed by the considerable experience of the professionals that I have had the luck to engage, but I need to have some overall ideas of which way to go, before I get there.

It'll help me sleep better!

[Mike Finn]

In answer to your questions:
1) not if the tuba is the least experienced. (Yes, in the sense that the bass line needs to propel the band, the tuba leads, but follow your band-mates cues for musical direction this time.)
2) In the absence of a drummer, the banjo player can give the "roll-off" or intro in most cases.
3) There are a couple of stock endings that work on most tunes, though a handful of tunes will have specific endings. Follow your bandmates on this one, it won't take you long to pick it up.
4) Are you sitting, standing, or strolling? If you take too long a break you run the risk of losing your audience.

General advice:
1) listen, listen, listen
2) play, play, play
3) learn the melodies, it will really help you memorize the changes as well as facilitate more creative bass lines. (I know you're using a book this time, and will probably want to stick to roots and fifths with occasional "walk-downs" and "walk-ups" but for future reference, learn the melodies!)

Enjoy!

[IkeH]

I'll have to say "Ditto" to what our friend Mr Finn said, especially on listening. Lean on your bandmates for ideas for tunes and other musical cues during the gig. In fact, I'd give at least one of them a call beforehand for a list of tunes and whatever questions you have. If they're pros, they will want to work with you more since you're the leader and therefore will sign the checks, so they should be more than willing to help out. Three hours is a pretty long dixie gig, so aim for as many tunes as you can play, even those that aren't especially dixie tunes, but repeating is ok. For the most part, you can start out tunes right at the beginning, no reason to get fancy at this stage, just get a reasonable tempo and count it off. Your lead guy will be clarinet(?), so watch him (and listen!) for cues how to get out of the tunes - tags, etc. This a kind of fluid situation and a LOT of face time on the horn, since your playing every beat of every tune, so use your ears and ease up on the pressure when you can. And above all, HAVE FUN!

Ike

[eupher61]

anything BUT the straw hats and vests and string ties. ANYTHING but those...

http://www.redhotjazz.com" target="_blank is a great archive of early 1900s jazz.

If you want to learn to play it, listen, listen, listen to as many recordings as you can.

Not wanting to re-start the 2 beat vs 4 beat argument, there are 2 distinct styles: playing mostly 2 beats per bar, or playing mostly 4.

4 beat player: you can't do much better than Dr Eli Newberger...find New Black Eagle Jazz Band recordings with him, as well as the M&M Trio and other things he did away from the NBEJB.
Dave Gannett (http://www.tubagear.com" target="_blank) somewhere between a 2 beat and 4 beat player. Chops to burn, breathes like a MONSTER, and really lays the groove. Tubagear has his recordings with the Black Dogs and others. He also has recordings by
Red Lehr...noted for playing almost anything BUT standard tuba lines, although he does plenty of straight bass line work too.
Rich Matteson made an amazing recording with the Dukes of Dixieland, also on tubagear.com

2 beat players: well, modestly...me (http://www.myspace.com/misbehavinjass" target="_blank ) those are first or second take, completely untouched recordings. I shouldn't steer anyone toward them, but what the heck, I was expecting to get some studio time to mix and adjust and punch in.
Bill Carroll with the Turk Murphy Jazz Band, and Bob Schulz's San Francisco Jazz Band.
Willie played with Turk for a long time, is on lots of recordings.

http://www.jazzbymail.com" target="_blank is the best source for "traditional jazz" recordings I've come across.

Mike Wallbridge, Original Salty Dogs Jazz Band, from the mid-60s or so up to now. Mike also plays cornet, and it shows in his solos, but he plays amazing bass lines too. As solid as anyone ever, and the Dogs are a great band too. Also available from jazzbymail.com

============
Also, remember that fakebooks are notorious for bad writing, outright wrong chords in many instances.

As stated earlier in the thread, learning the melodies as well as the changes only makes it easier all round.

Don't worry about playing solos. If you're called out to solo, just play the melody and fool around with it rhythmically, moreso than melodically.

KEEP GOOD TIME!

[tofu]

--

[EdFirth]

If you haven't played this kind of music before you are biting off a huge chunk to call and kick off and play tunes. Mabye get the most experienced player to run the band for an extra taste and learn from them on the job.Contracting the job doesn't mean you have to be the leader.As far as you and the fake book, get the others who aren't using it to give you a list of stuff they know and like to play so you can look at Those tunes and' if possible get a hold of some recordings. There are lots of ways to play the same songs out there but at least you'll have some idea of how they go.There is nothing more annoying to a seasoned trad jazz player than having someone run the band with a tune list who has obviously not even heard the music before. Just listen and try to fit with what they are doing. The costume thing is kind of a what the client wants issue. Fake skimmers and striped vests are as valid as black suits as long as the band sounds good. If you could go hear an evening of jazz you'd really have a leg up. Mabye call Vince Giardano and ask him where you can go to hear him. Or ask at the union, they can point you in the right direction.Lastly, you don't need a sousaphone or helicon to play jazz. Play what you are comfortable on. Good Luck, Ed

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Thanks, guys! This is all good stuff to think about!

[David Richoux]

One thing I don't think anybody else mentioned is picking the "Right" key for a tune - since you won't have a trumpet player for this gig it might not be quite so much of an issue, but some songs are traditionally done in certain keys, others are more flexible (depending on the skills of the players.) Ask before you jump into a tune, and make sure everybody agrees. A quiet strum of the major chord from the banjo player can help set the key in everybody's mind.

Most of the songs my band does are in Bb, Eb, F, and a few in C or Ab, with some Dm "dirges" or klezmer style tunes. Most players tend to stay away from sharp keys unless you are playing in a string band. Modulating from Minor to Major, or taking a step up for the last time though the chorus can make a song really pop!

Usually it is the trumpet player who calls the key, if there is any doubt. Vocalists can ask for a particular key if needed (but a lot of untrained or semi-skilled singers don't really know for sure and good singers can often go a few steps up or down without much problem.)

Song structure is the other issue a leader should focus on - many "Dixie" tunes are set up like a traditional march, with an Intro, "A" verse, "B" verse, Interlude and "C" part (usually repeated where the solos are taken,) with some sort of ending. Others tunes might just have a typical song Verse and Chorus, with solos on the Chorus, or there might be a be a blend between March and Song. It is rare for the solos to be done on the Verse, and sometimes the Verse is dropped altogether. Sometimes songs start on the Chorus and switch to the Verse - figure all of this all out ahead of time, but don't have a long discussion about it on stage!

Be sure to at least look like you are having fun with the gig - it should not be all serious n' stuff - remember that the music was originally played for dancers and listeners on the streets or in saloons, nightclubs, brothels, traveling shows and speakeasies - usually not Carnegie Hall (or church.) If you make mistakes, don't worry about it too much - just get back on track and keep playing!

As for breaks - we usually do 45 on 15 off, but that is with a band that has been playing regularly since 1975 - 50/10 would be a minimum set-up. (Look for a Cab Calloway Orchestra song called "15 Minute Intermission" for guidance

[MikeMilnarik]

Hello!

I run a number of groups, including a Dixieland Band called the Dr. Fidgety Dixieland Jazz Band http://www.drfidgety.com" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

As the leader of a group the players you hire will look to you for instruction and decisions. Here's a way to make things a bit easier...

1. As the tuba player in the group it's difficult to give cues for solos due to the nature of us constantly playing. In my band I've worked it out that our cornet player gives all the cues for solos. Just makes it easier because he knows what he's doing and he's not playing all of the time. Before the gig ask someone you feel comfortable with if they mind giving the cues.

2. Have a set list at the gig for everyone that includes the keys you want to play the tunes in. You are the leader - you pick the tunes and keys. That's what they will expect. My suggestion is to always have more than enough music. Too much is better than not enough. One reason for this is because although most good Dixieland players will be able to play in pretty much any key - you won't, and some are just bad for those tunes. If your fake book has a tune in a key that's not very common and really isn't friendly for everyone - skip that tune and move on to another. There are tons of tunes to choose from.

3. Make sure you know the style, feel and form of each tune by listening to recordings. This is important. Some tunes need no intro and others absolutely need an intro. YOU decide in advance which tunes are need of an intro and which ones you'll want to start "right on it." At the beginning of each tune the other players will be looking for that instruction from you. All you need to do is say "Let's start right on it." or "Jimmy, why don't you give us an intro?" I use the name Jimmy because I don't know the names of the people you're playing with, and in my group our banjo player, Jimmy Mazzy, starts most of the tunes that I want intros to, and our drummer gives the intros to others.

4. Let the person cuing the solos decide the end of the tune. Once in a while a tune may end a little sooner than you'd like, BUT - it's more difficult for people to see my hand up; it's more difficult for me to hold my hand up and hold the tuba; and my cornet player knows what he's doing...I just let him do what he feels works.

5. 50 minutes on/15 minutes off works great (or some combination like that).

Experienced players will look to the leader for direction no matter what your experience is. The players look to me for direction when I hire them, and I am a "YES MAN" when I am on someone else's gig. So don't be surprised if none of the other players try to take the bull by the horns and lead. If you expect that - it will look really unorganized to your audience. They (the other players) won't want to cross a line on your gig UNLESS you talk to them and ask them to do something specific.

One more important thing - I put in all my contracts that payment needs to be made by the conclusion of the performance. Since you hired them make sure everyone leaves with a check in hand, even if for some reason the venue doesn't pay you. You hired the musicians, they expect to be paid and it's the leader's problem if the venue doesn't provide the check when they're supposed to. Keep the players happy and try to be as organized as possible and the next time gets much easier.

Forgive me if some of this has already been covered by other posts or if you know this from your other contracting work.

Traditional Jazz is becoming a lost art. This music is important to our heritage and it's great to hear that although you don't have experience at this - you're trying! Book more of these gigs!

I hope this helps a bit.

HAVE FUN AND GOOD LUCK!!

Mike Milnarik

[Z-Tuba Dude]

No, not yet. The gig isn't until mid-September.

The way I'm looking at it, is: "Anything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger." --- If I survive, I may actually learn some stuff that I can use next time!

Thanks for all the feedback!