Any ideas on this tuba?

[Paul Tkachenko]

Hi,

been spending a bit of time with this tuba and the sound is fantastic.

The 5th valve works fine.

The tuning is a bit on middle line D and Db on the bass stave. These notes are quite flat and need to be played with 1 and 2 for a D and 2 and 3 for a Db - curious! I'm not sure why a note that is in the harmonic series can be so out of tune ... I've now got the stock miraphone mouthpiece, which helped improve things. Anyone got any ideas about this oddity?

I'm going to give Miraphone a call on Monday to ask them about this. I will also look into the posibility of altering the 5th valve to long whole step, so it's like my other tubas. This might be pretty expensive, so may not go for this option.

Will keep you all posted - any ideas before Monday?

[poomshanka]

That range on my mid-80s vintage 188 CC was the same way - 12 for E, 23 for Eb. I also had to push in the first valve slide for D and Db (C and Cb on your BBb). This pitch tendency was repeated above the staff. The 190 BBb shown in the comparison pixx on my site was the same way, with the corresponding notes (D, Db, C, Cb) being the same as yours. The 190 CC was in-tune with open E and 2 Eb, and D and Db were fine without pushing in the first valve slide. The price of admission was that open C in the staff was oddly quite sharp. I had a main tuning slide kicker put on (not shown in the comparison photos) that enabled me to push out for that note so I wouldn't have to play it 23.

The 2nd-generation 190 CCs (like the ones Steve Ferguson is selling) have the flat 1 fifth valve like the newer Mirafone instruments. They also use the smaller .840" valve block that was developed for the 191. Same bore as your horn, but smaller diameter/mass and much faster. The fifth valve tuning slide connection points used on the 191, 291 and new 190 CC seem to be the same as yours. Mirafone might be able to sell you the fifth valve wrap from a 191, as it'd be the right length for your horn. The loop on the 191 goes towards the back, however, as opposed to the front as it does on the 291 and new 190 CC (at least that's what the pic on Mirafone's website shows). Not sure if that'd be an issue. Some slight mods might also need to be made, as the diameter of the valve casing on your horn is different than the diameter on the new .840" valves (meaning the gap between the inbound and outbound sides of the tuning slide might not line up properly with the valve casing ports on your horn). Alternatively, you might want to check with a local repairman to see if enough of your factory fifth valve tuning slide can be chopped out to get the pitch changed from sharp 23 to flat 1.

I'm glad to hear your 190 BBb is a good axe, as the 190 BBb I played was pretty bad. Gotta love those giant, bright tubas, though!!



...Dave

[Paul Tkachenko]

Thanks for that Dave - I'm going to ask Miraphone what they can do about it and, if necessary, I'll take the horn to them in Germany.

I'll let you know what they say on Monday.

They should be able to improve it ....

Regards,

Paul

[Paul Tkachenko]

So, just got off the phone with Miraphone and can do nothing to improve the tuning on these notes.

A shame as the instrument sounds so great ...

I guess I'm just going to have to use 1+2 for D and 2+3 for Db ... I guess I'll get used to it.

They are the only problem notes really, the rest seem fine and, in particular, the lower range is fantastic.

[poomshanka]

If you'd like to play those notes open and 2, and don't mind a little slide jiggering, you might consider having a spring-loaded double-action slide pumper on the main slide. It worked for me, although it wouldn't necessarily be cheap.

...D

[Rick Denney]

These notes are quite flat and need to be played with 1 and 2 for a D and 2 and 3 for a Db - curious! I'm not sure why a note that is in the harmonic series can be so out of tune ... I've now got the stock miraphone mouthpiece, which helped improve things. Anyone got any ideas about this oddity?

When you consider the actual physics of a conical-bore brass instrument, you'll start expressing surprise that any of the partials are in tune at all.

The flat fifth partial is a trade-off for an in-tune third partial, in particular for a big tuba. I seem to recall Conn having done some science back in the deeps of time, and came up with that trade-off. They designed the 20J and similar big instruments to have a flat third partial on purpose so as to bring the fifth partial up to pitch. Miraphone has always gone the other way.

Even the 186, which is known for playing in tune quite well, has a flat fifth partial. I routinely push my first valve slide in for the C on the staff at least two inches. The 190 does not have the reputation for excellent intonation that the 186 does, so it would not surprise me that this partial would require alternate fingerings.

I owned a VMI-made Bb tuba that I bought right after German unification that had the same problem only worse. I devised a tuning stick for that instrument that pushed the main slide in, and the control for it was a thumb ring right next to the first slide. I could therefore push the first and main slides in at the same time for those notes.

It could be worse, though. It could be an Alexander.

Rick "noting that the 2-3 fifth valve was standard on Miraphones of the day" Denney

[Paul Tkachenko]

Thanks for all these comments guys ...

I'm going to run with the instrument for a while and see how I get on. It's only 2 notes that are a bit two funky (or maybe 'blue' would be the correct word!)

The sound of this beast seems to be worth rejigging a few fingerings.