TUBAD83 wrote:I have played in ensembles where all four tubas (BBb, CC, EEb, F) were used--not only could not tell which was which, but the intonation was great. It really just comes down to personal preference, just like pistons vs rotors.
By the way--Dan, I must respectfully beg to differ with you on the YBB 641. I had one for 3 years, used it for concert band, cutdown/show band, brass ensemble, and quintet work. A great horn and never had a problem with it. IMHO, a fine professional quality horn.
JJ
IMHO, a fine professional quality horn. This is the key. Unfortunately, in most places professional quality doesn't make it "professional" since "pro's" aren't using it......semantics.
Bob Kolada wrote:Are there any almost-identical Bb and C tubas? The 186 and 1291 have different bodies between them, but are the most identical I can think of.
Of course they have slightly different bodies, there is 2 feet of open bugle missing from the CC compared to the BBb.
They are, in fact, more similar than dissimilar.
RC
Of course of course they're different! Klaus' example of the 621 was what I was looking for. The 1291 Bb and C have different valve bores (I thought when the C came out they had the straight .835, but I guess not), the Bb has that much taller top bow, and they really don't look that much alike at all even though they kinda "are."
Interesting reading this thread having just come home from a concert by the Chicago Symphony with Gene Pokorny playing his York CC (in Bruckner 7) making a very interesting comparison with hearing him on piston Fafner BBb (in Mahler 9) July. What I thought was how similar he sounded on both (superb of course), with if anything the York slightly broader in tone. However, I rather suspect in a blind test I would be unable to tell if he was playing CC, or BBb.
The difference in individual models tone is at least as great as the pitch they are made. The thing to remember is the person behind the mouthpiece is the most important element to the sound.
I believe CC has an advantage for orchestral playing simply because the tuba part in symphonic music far more often ventures into the high register, for which the tone higher of the CC sits more comfortably. While in band music the bass part is usually in the middle or lower register where the lower pitch of the BBb can make for easier fingerings - avoiding use of the 4th valve in all but the lowest parts.
I play CC because a lot of my playing is with orchestra, but would be quite happy with BBb instead if I mainly played with bands.
There might be some differences between BBb and CC tubas, but sound and ease of play (except at the key extremes) aren't real ones, . . and the keys swap off. I have played 3 different model Cervenys and a Yama 641. . .all 3 Cervs were better than the Yama. Your program might want you to get familiar with all tubas (Do they require that you learn Eb, F, and Bb?), and, if not, you may be forced to live with the chauvinism. However, in my opinion,
Neptune wrote:
I believe CC has an advantage for orchestral playing simply because the tuba part in symphonic music far more often ventures into the high register, for which the tone higher of the CC sits more comfortably. While in band music the bass part is usually in the middle or lower register where the lower pitch of the BBb can make for easier fingerings - avoiding use of the 4th valve in all but the lowest parts.
This is a very significant point. As I played exclusively on a BBb tuba until my sophomore year of college before I switched to CC, I have found this to be part of it.
Neptune wrote:
I play CC because a lot of my playing is with orchestra, but would be quite happy with BBb instead if I mainly played with bands.
TUBAD83 wrote:..... By the way--Dan, I must respectfully beg to differ with you on the YBB 641. I had one for 3 years, used it for concert band, cutdown/show band, brass ensemble, and quintet work. A great horn and never had a problem with it. IMHO, a fine professional quality horn. JJ
There's a player out there for every horn... and vice-versa. I've just never had a great experience with a 641. But... bear in mind that most of what I see are Yammies that are beat all to hell by school kids! I sit next to a guy in one of the local community bands that plays his with everything pushed all the way in "because that's the only way it will fit in the case"!
I heard your Houston Symphonic Band at the ACB Convention last April. I think you guys would probably sound good on plastic Bundy commode-O-phones!
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker" http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
while it may not be necessary to switch to CC exclusively, it is important to learn every key of tuba, including euphonium, so you can make an informed and experienced choice at some point. reasons to play any key are like...umm...conductors......
jamsav wrote:maybe, just maybe, this young mans college has a matched set of CC horns that are used and the directors consideration is one of intonation ???
Her school doesn't even own any CC's yet and the band director has the opinion that if the person is getting the job done on the horn they are holding on to then he is happy. Last year in that band one guy played a Besson CC, I played my 983 Eb, and the other guy played a St Pete BBb and the director was very happy with the sound and on occasion mentioned to me in my conducting lessons that he enjoyed having the variety of horns.
The new low brass instructor there this year is trying to aquire a couple of new CC's and is insisting that BBb is for amateurs only and that CC is the only horn worth playing as a pro
jamsav wrote:maybe, just maybe, this young mans college has a matched set of CC horns that are used and the directors consideration is one of intonation ???
Yeah, that'd be a great idea from some music "educator." Take a bunch of sousaphone players right out of high school, tell them the Bb horns they played and never gave a second thought about suck, and throw some fancy out of tune "funny fingerings" tuba at them.
I'm getting a few kinda "funny" vibes in a music educator factory now (gosh, that probably sounds worse than I meant it too!)...
Klaus' example of the 621 was what I was looking for. The 1291 Bb and C have different valve bores (I thought when the C came out they had the straight .835, but I guess not), the Bb has that much taller top bow, and they really don't look that much alike at all even though they kinda "are."
