How do I get that warm dark brass tone?

[Funcoot]

I've been playing for about 7 months now. I joined in the middle of my sophomore year and my Junior years is just now starting to really get going. I am only slightly happy with my progress. I can pretty much play all of our half time show (which I would post if our bd would upload the shows to youtube). Our songs include Call Me (Blondie), Holiday (by Madonna), Mickey (Toni Basil), and Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me (Elton John). The tubas actually get a pretty cool soli in Holiday.

We just got back from Troy's Sound of the South Band Festival Saturday and thankfully we got straight superiors. Things seem to be going good right?

Well, that is only half true (to me anyways). I still have a few problems. My low Gb to Eb (below the staff) range sounds pretty good, but above that people notice that my tone starts to get pinched. It's not pinched terribly, but it is noticeable. Now I might be new, but I know that I shouldn't start pinching at F right below the staff. There has to be something fundamentally wrong.

I really only think it can stem from two sources. My embouchure or my breathing, probably both.

I've been trying to find articles online, but I haven't been able to find too many (from credible people) and the ones that did contradicted each other. Though that doesn't surprised me, cause everyone plays differently. Not one person plays the same.

I was wondering if anyone here could give me tips, I don't care if I have to read paragraphs. I plan to get lessons sometime after Christmas with Christmas money, but help now would be just as valuable.

[ken k]

three generic comments about tone productoin that may or may not apply to you. I can't hear you so i can't really tell, but I get many young students who blow too hard.
1. Use slower "warmer" air. Often times in an effort to play loudly in marchng band situations one may tend to overblow, don't know if you do but it could be part of the problem.

2. in an effort to get warmer air, open the oral cavity. make sure the teeth are not clenched, think "Tawh"

3. less mouthpeice pressure. you should just have enough mouthpeice pressure on your lips to maintain a seal so no air leaks out. no more!

Again these are three very general rules but one or more of them may apply to you.

good luck, keep working at it.

ken k

[Funcoot]

Is there a difference between a pinched and closed sound?

[pierso20]

Is there a difference between a pinched and closed sound?

There can be, however with such similar words it is likely a matter of semantics. One persons idea of pinched may not be another's (though they'd be similar).

[tubashaman2]

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[rocksanddirt]

I agree with both the small physical things (open your mouth/throat/control pressure) and the more mental things. My mental picture observation is to think about filling the space, not about the sound out the end of the horn. When you are in college, music major or no, and join the marching band, the stadium is a rediculous place to fill with sound, but you will do it.

[Tubaryan12]

What Ken K said, and I'll add this: play everything you need to work on as quietly as you can and listen to your tone. Playing as softly as you can will allow you to really hear and feel everything that is going on with your tone.

[tubashaman2]

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[Roger Lewis]

Play an F at the bottom of the staff 10 times - now tell me which lip is doing the work. I would put money on it that the lower lip is the one that is doing the work, flapping against the upper. if you buzz your lips without the mouthpiece and the air stream is going upwards, this is what you are doing. Lower lip embouchures, in the pro ranks, are rare but some people with the right facial bone structure have done very well. Many younger players benefit from correcting this.

The students I inherited from another teacher were all playing this way and it gave them what I can only describe as a whiney, annoying, penetrating sound that you just wanted to go away. It took a while for me to figure it out but a visualizer really helps see what is going on.

If you have an overbite, like most of the population, then your UPPER lip should be doing the work and the air stream should be going forward to slightly down in the low register, down at about a 45 degree angle in the mid register and straight down in the high register.

I see about 9 out of 10 younger players that come through the shop buzzing the wrong lip and looking for deeper and darker mouthpieces to make it better. Fix the cause, not the symptom. Get to a good teacher. Even I am pi$$ing into the wind without actually hearing and seeing you play. I am just making a wild, educated guess based on your description.

All the best.
Roger

[imperialbari]

The replies have been kind. They have held much good advise. And yet only Roger approaches the not so kind truth:

The OP has been allowed to play music way above his technical proficiency. He has developed not a usable technique, but a sad pile of bad habits disallowing any productive progress. Unless:

He finds a profoundly competent teacher who also has extraordinary patience. And unless the OP’s attitude allows him to scrap every bit of his pseudo knowledge about tuba playing. Whenever he wants to comment his teacher’s instructions like this: I don’t use to do that, then he shall just shut-up and follow his teacher.

There must have been some irresponsible people in the OP’s environment, who have let this happen. These people shall not be allowed to try to be a part of the solution except for paying the OP’s lessons.

It will be easier to start from new on accordion!

Klaus

[TubaBobH]

2. in an effort to get warmer air, open the oral cavity. make sure the teeth are not clenched, think "Tawh"

A little trick to learning how to keep your oral cavity as open as possible to help create a large open sound. Many years ago one of my private teachers would periodically bring a raw carrot to my lesson. He would take out his pocket knife and cut a quarter inch or so slice and have me place it between my back teeth to re-enforce the "feel" of creating as large an oral cavity as possible while playing. It worked wonders for the quality of my sound. Forty years later, my range may not be quite what it used to be. My technique may be a step or so behind what it used to be. But my "sound" is still as full and rich as it ever was.

[Rick Denney]

Klaus is right as usual. Please don't make the mistake I made. Please find a way to get some lessons from a pro. Please don't try to extend range without extending sound as well. A good teacher can do with five seconds of observation what Tubenet will never be able to do at all.

Rick "still correcting bad habits 40 years beyond where you are now" Denney

[peter birch]

Rick "still correcting bad habits 40 years beyond where you are now" Denney

me too,

[luke_hollis]

Play a bunch of book 1 Rochut etudes an octave lower than written and focus on getting a good sound without flabbiness. If you can get something decent sounding down there, the rest will take care of itself. Low and full but slow air.

[Funcoot]

Thanks for all the help so far guys. As many of you had said, without actually hearing me... it's kind of a shot in the dark. "It could be..." I understand and appreciate all advice given. As stated I hope to get lessons sometime after December and plan to spend time with the best tuba player in the band (He is playing a grade 5 solo as a sophomore, maybe a grade 6).

To give some of you guys the idea off the difficulty of our music, here is our Troy performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ZxDeId-_M&fmt=18" target="_blank" target="_blank (go to 3:00, if you don't wanna wait watching us walk in).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4YDcUKy ... re=channel" target="_blank" target="_blank (rest of the show (has a tuba soli))

All in all, I'm still having a lot of fun, which I know is just as important to the learning process. So I'm going to keep up the hard work. Please keep posting tips and even critiques of the show (we are still working on cleaning up ALL of it). Thanks again.

[imperialbari]

The boys must have had some bad hang-overs with all that black smoke coming out of their hats (or are the uniforms sponsored by Diesel?).

If it really is that hot, why aren’t the young ladies not more kind to the players? I mean they should swing their fans closer to the players, if these should experience the cooling effect.

Some of the lines obviously should be more straight, but then I am not fluent enough in Braillé to read the inherent subtitles out of the formations anyway.

Apparently a lady in the foreground suffers involuntary symmetrical spams. Aren’t there prescriptions against that?

K

[Henry Gertcher]

Above and beyond the advice you have been given so far I would strongly recommend a few lessons with a local pro. They will be able to more effectively diagnose any "problem" you might have.

I find it very difficult to teach the concept of sound without intensive listening. Especially listening to people with the type of sound that you like. So if a pro is not an option try you might want to pick up a few CD's. Grab any CD with almost any tuba "pro." If you are not sure which ones are good check here

http://www.chisham.com/buys/recordings.html

Upon a quick glance I think I own all of the CDs mentioned there plus many, many more. If you would like a few other options I will be happy to offer a few of my other favorites.

Good luck.

Henry Gertcher

[WakinAZ]

Agree with all said above, especially getting a few lessons with someone who knows how to play and *teach* tuba.

An important point (underlining what the others have said, and paraphrasing Donald Knaub): Don't just blow air *at* the mouthpiece, but rather *through* the horn. You are not playing for yourself, or even the person waving their arms in front of the band; you are playing for the guy in the cheap seats: open up, move air and project. Go for good sound over loud. Breathe as much as you have to - cheat like hell, a lot of the greats did and do. You're blowing through 18 feet of big brass pipe; resistance is futile.

[Just sticking someone on the sousaphone (or marching tuba, whatever) with little/no instruction happens. We had one or two "horn holders" in my high school marching band who were recruited just to hold and march the souzys for formations, etc. and were not expected to play (had to have 8 or ten or whatever was called for visually). ]

Eric

[eupher61]

OK...the nice answers have been posted, and are pretty much repetitive by now.

Time for some FUN!

Dark brass tone?

[Chriss2760]

You buy and play a Miraphone 186.