Besson " FB " Question

[jamsav]

Gentlemen,
I'm sitting in a community band that has , much to my delight, put a repertoire of Alford marches into the folders. Army of The Nile, Mad Major, HMJolies , Col. Bogey...Having cut my teeth in a British regimental style marching band , I miss the snap and punch that the Besson Imperial I marched with provided. The horns I blew in HS back in the 70s are long gone from the school district, all were silver finished , one was small, I 'd say 1/2 size 3 valve, one was a 3/4 , 3 valve and two were monster 4 valve 4/4s ( think British Royal Marine Band ).
Two queries, would anyone have any idea what these might have been ?- they were purchased new in the early 70s , and what is an FB Besson tuba ?- saw one on ebay that looked like it had been kicked down the stairs , bid ridiculously low, and walked away winning it....my wife is gonna kill me...

[imperialbari]

The FB term is unknown to me in this context. 100 to 150 years ago there was a branch of the Besson family stamping its instruments F. Besson (Paris or London). This hardly applies in this case, and I never saw an FB abbreviation anyway.

I rather suspect a typo for Eb. If you could provide photos or a working link for the auction, quite a few TubeNet’ters might be more specific.

Sadly I don’t no longer have Besson or Bossey & Hawkes old catalogues. The attached page is from about 1985, where the second level series had been named 700 (formerly Besson Westminster or B&H Regent). The shapes, wraps, and dimensions still were the same. There also had been third level series named Oxford or Cambridge. Some had the main tuning slide in the leadpipe.

Klaus

[iiipopes]

Wow! If it's the same horn that just went under the block, and the only "completed listing" that has "FB" on it, you got an even better deal than I did. And I am absolutely green about the hardshell case. Great snag!

I did the same thing. My 3-valve comp came home for $411 including shipping. Now, I knew it was going to take a little work when it got here, and after fixing water keys, and a few elective dents in the valve block, and don't forget to get a Wick small shank mouthpiece, it plays great. It has so much, um, er, "patina" that a person wonders why, but it still has all its original bits of hardware, valve buttons, caps, etc., the comp valves are perfect, intonation about as perfect as it gets, and the only "stuffy" notes are low C & B nat.

To take-off from the VISA ad:
Getting tuba home, getting it fixed: @$700
Immediately turning around and getting a Wick 1 mouthpiece after forgetting (if I ever knew in the first place) that it needed a small shank for the old receiver: $100
The joy of chugging along on the Holst, the Alford, and such on the type of horn they were written for: priceless.

[jamsav]

hopefully I managed to attach a proper pic- Big Besson 4 valve- pretty cool American HS band uniform ( maybe not so cool in Belfast at the time ) Any idea on what this horn was ?

pchs_Band_1974-75_039.jpg

As an indication of scale I was not a little guy at 6foot tall- skinny perhaps

[imperialbari]

If the valve buttons have a sloped profile, it is a Besson New Standard 3+1P compensating BBb tuba. If it has more normal buttons it is the Boosey & Hawkes equivalent Imperial model.

It would be of great interest to have the link for the FB-auction.

Klaus

[jamsav]

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-BESSON-FB-N ... 19b7336c7f" target="_blank
here you go Klaus- you may have to cut and paste- you can also use the ebay advanced search functionality- completed auctions - Besson FB
The valves were straight up, 4th valve down and around the corner we performed with the British RMs once and found the horns identical to their Booseys...

[imperialbari]

Thanks for the link!

This FB sample has the sloping profile valve buttons. I see no explanation at all for the FB term, but you got yourself a tuba at quite a low price. As the owner of a 4 valve sample I think you will like the lighter weight of this 3 valve sample. It will cover the full range needed for the Alford repertory.

Klaus

[Mike-ICR]

I have one just like it and I love it. Mine used to be the recording bell model but I harvested the bell and stack for another horn and replaced it with a fixed upright bell (now it looks just like this one). It works very well in brass band and concert band settings.

[jamsav]

Thank you Bloke- Thank you Kurt , Klaus etals...Bloke let me know when that 4 banger comes on the market- jamsav

[imperialbari]

:

[WakinAZ]

TIP: get the scrotum-smasher (ball on the bottom bow) sawed off.

Eric "who owned a nice little New Standard Eb 3v comp and had the ball removed" L.

[sloan]

As with dozens of other things, I have one of these (3+1) upstairs in a box awaiting restoration...Someday (when reassemble it...not this year), I'll probably (??) put a satin-silver finish on it and (??) end up selling it to a brass band enthusiast.

But...but...be sure to put a BIG Bell on it for that "Fletcher" sound. And move the leadpipe.
Satin-silver is so 1990's - go with the new Patrick Sheridan tri-color lacquer job.

[colinbugby]

I remember as a kid in the 70's really lusting after a frosted euphonium. I was using a leaky pre 1930 Boosey Imperial at the time held together with red plastic tape.

There are county owned 4 valve BBb Imperials used by youngsters where I teach. Not treasured as much as I would like.

[jamsav]

Got the ebay Horn and , after a little cleaning, it says " New Standard " under the Besson logo. Above the logo is the " FB " designation.Specs out like a 785, plays with great projection . I've had the brass ball sawed off of the bottom bow and it remains incredibly difficult egonomically !! Specifically, the lead pipe and reciever are set so high that even at 6 feet tall , I have a hard time keeping it on the chair and getting into it . I wonder why these are set so high ? Does it help the horn set up better for marching ? I ll post pics once its cleaned up ...jamsav

[sloan]

Got the ebay Horn and , after a little cleaning, it says " New Standard " under the Besson logo. Above the logo is the " FB " designation.Specs out like a 785, plays with great projection . I've had the brass ball sawed off of the bottom bow and it remains incredibly difficult egonomically !! Specifically, the lead pipe and reciever are set so high that even at 6 feet tall , I have a hard time keeping it on the chair and getting into it . I wonder why these are set so high ? Does it help the horn set up better for marching ? I ll post pics once its cleaned up ...jamsav

Once again, that Fletcher guy seems to have had the right idea. Exchange the wimpy bell for a *real* bell, and move the leadpipe while you are at it.

My guess is that the ball you cut off and the leadpipe position are related. Perfect for marching - for sitting, not so good. But, that's just a guess.

[iiipopes]

The way I play mine is a standard orchestra chair or equivalent, turned 45 degrees so that the back of the chair is under my right elbow and the tuba rests on the corner of the chair.

[Rick Denney]

I wonder why these are set so high ?

One of the great mysteries of socialism.

Cliff Bevan even wrote about it the Besson design putting the mouthpiece at mid-forehead.

I would invest in a Baltimore Brass playing stand.

I once owned a Besson Stratford Bb, which is basically the same instrument though uncompensated, and probably made to be cheaper in other ways, too (such as a tuning slide in the leadpipe). Mine had been used as an offensive weapon in some war or another, judging from the 174,395 dents. But it was all I head for my comeback to tuba playing, so I made it work. It had three basic problems: 1.) It would not accept a mouthpiece to my liking, and finding a Wick in those days (many years before Al Gore invented the internet) required knowing about it and then knowing where to send off to get it, 2.) the instrument played generally flat (probably because of the mouthpiece problem), and 3.) the mouthpiece hit me mid-forehead. At the same time I had the ball removed (there's room for only two in that vicinity), I had the tech cut about two inches off the leadpipe where it went into the tuning slide, and replace the receiver. That fixed all the problems in one go. Then, I shortened the valve tubing on two of the valves, so that the 2-3 combination conformed to some semblance of a western diatonic tonality, and then it was elevated from complete crap to merely mediocre. I didn't miss it after I eventually replaced it, but when I offered it in trade for some other instrument, the guy who received it played it for a few minutes and pronounced it the best in-tune cheapie Besson he'd ever played. The three-valve compensators were far better, and in terms of intonation probably the best of the lot.

Rick "who owns and loves his extremely battered old New Standard euphonium" Denney

[imperialbari]

You possibly would find the leadpipe in the right place, if you didn’t sit bent over like on your racing bike when playing tuba.

I think the French-British oldies made tall tubas to avoid bending bows. There are two bows less on the Bessons than on the usual compact American designed tuba (at least when it comes to BBb).

K

[jamsav]

I think our resident genius Mr Denney has made the call. As Tubassists are no longer available, I'll get to Baltimore brass for a stand . Played a sit down, outdoor Vet Day job and had the chair turned sideways and that was okay . Only way I could get my fat a%$ and the tuba on the chair...the performance was a show up and read , mostly watered down arrangements of old patriotic marches but , when Them Basses got passed out and it was to be our finishing piece , I started to drool !! . I was on my tip toes to point that bell forward...wow , what a hoot . Typical Besson stuffy C# and B natural , but this horn can honk ! I've had the dents handled on the bell and bugle portion of the horn, now its back to the body shop for the dents around the first bend. Thanks guys ! ...

[royjohn]

Until the past few days, due to four major diaphragm surgeries this year [that's another post], I haven't been able to play tuba. Breaking out the 1970 Besson tuba I got off ebay last year today, I find that it is a 4-790 [3+1 BBb] according to this thread. Like Rick Denney, I find my old Besson is mostly uniformly flat [about ten cents using my Benge 24AW or my Kellyberg]. Using a smaller shank old Lyle meant for my 1913 Keefer Eefer that goes into the receiver [converted to large American shank] about a half inch further improves the intonation somewhat, but that mouthpiece is pretty small for such a big horn and is probably not the right one for it.

My question is, is there a Wick or something else for this horn that might improve the intonation, is the problem my poor chops, or will it be necessary to chop off some tubing to get this thing in tune? Any info on this model is greatly appreciated --- I can't find much info on it. Yes, it is heavy and the mpc receiver is high, but I can work around this and enjoy the horn, if I can get it to play halfway right.

Best,