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[tubashaman2]

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[tubashaman2]

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[MartyNeilan]

Most of this board is opinions.

I am too busy and sick to be on here to argue....e-mail me if you want to talk at my email

You constantly spout "Jamesisms" that often fly in the face of accepted convention, or make little sense, yet you preach them as gospel truth. If you were some high school sophomore sousaphone player, it would matter little and we would all just ignore you. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are trying very hard to ultimately become a doctoral degreed full time college professor. With your determination, I have no doubt that you will ultimately achieve that, if you continue at your current pace. Once you reach that spot, you will absolutely need to stop and think before you speak; otherwise you will either (A) find your university sued for slandor, (B) you will be out of a job after 1-2 semesters, or most likely (C) you will just be cranking out a lot of misinformed students who are more confused than when they first started.

None of us want to see any of that happen James, that is why we are so hard on you. It is not to be mean. (not even the Elephant.)

[brianf]

Guess I need to get out of lurking mode for this.

Hindemith was a frequent guest conductor with the Chicago Symphony for years. There is no question that Jacobs and Hindemith were at the same place at the same time. What discussions (if any) were between them. Jacobs always liked talking shop and got along with almost anyone. Talking about the tuba with Hindemith could have happenned - the time period was around when the Tuba Sonata was being written.

Saying Jacobs did not like playing tuba or teaching solo material is not correct. In the days I was a student, I studied a lot of solo material including the Vaughn Williams and Hindemith. Schools require solos to be played for juries, there was no way that he could not have students play solo material. As for himself, as a part of his practice routine, he always practiced a recital program.

One night we were at Harvey Phillips' where it was just the three of us. When you are in a room with greats such as Harvey Phillips and Arnold Jacobs you shut your mouth and listen. They were talking about the early solo material and both adnmitted it was not good. Jacobs said that it did not really improve until after the VW and Hindemith. This was in the 50's and later Harvey Phillips started to do something to get composers to write for the tuba. In 1973 Phillips invited a number of composers to the first tuba conference and all of them wrote something afterwards. Jacobs thanked Phillips for developing the tuba repretoire. It startyed getting better in the 1970's.

Back to the original subject - did Hindemith consult Jacobs about the Tuba Sonata. Could have happenned. I never heard any mention of this although I did ask him about Hindemith as a conductor. Who did this story come from?

[tubashaman2]

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[iiipopes]

I would like to appologize for any wrong information about the teachings of Mr. Jacobs or anything wrong I posted. I just wanted to share this information as I received it. Please do not look down on anyone for this, including information from many sources, even ones on this board, and preliminary research I started. I should have researched further on Jacobs or asked privately to others before posting, and I wish to be forgiven.

I will not post on here for a while until I do more research and have valuable, valid posting information with correct lingual uses.

Sorry, and I hope am forgiven.

You are. To post frankly and with true humility takes more guts than to spout off large bandwidths of BS. I'll be the first to offer my avatar up to the cyberspace equivalent of purchasing beverages of choice. Hang in there.

[The Big Ben]

I thought this was a rather interesting topic to begin with.... It's a shame it spiraled out of control.

Yeah, me too. I was just sittin' over here in the corner listenin'.

Sure was better than the "Why do CCs cost so much?" bleet.

[Wyvern]

'tubashaman2' stated from the beginning that this was second hand hearsay and I guess his original post was aimed at trying to verify. I really therefore cannot see the problem. I found this an interesting topic beyond the usual equipment posts.

Don't be dispirited James!

[Todd S. Malicoate]

[windshieldbug]

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[Uncle Buck]

I think this has been an informative thread. Unfortunately, I did not get to read it before the OP's posts were deleted.

I think I would have found the thread even more informative if they had been left intact.

There is nothing wrong with posting hearsay, as long as it is identified as such for purposes of the sure-to-come TNFJ "peer review."

[windshieldbug]

Q: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
M: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Q: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
M: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Q: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
M: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Q: Not at all.
M: Thank You.
(Under his breath) Stupid git!!

[tbn.al]

You have made my day. I hadn't thought of that argument thing in years. Probably my favorite Monty bit ever. Found it on YouTube. Watched it three times in succession. Here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Mike-ICR]

Here's the full length one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y&NR=1" target="_blank

[iiipopes]

I just got done reading Elephant's long post. Even those of us who have had careers where the authority used to support a point is questioned and tested as the expected way to do things, occasionally we do take it hard as well when something doesn't go the way it should.

We go home, pour an ice cold beverage, anything from from iced tea to whatever depending on the personal preference and what is appropriate for the circumstance, and sleep on it.

The with the sun, we put our pants on one leg at a time just like any other person, gather together the self confidence to do it again, and go forth, having learned the lessons that made us better persons.

Hey, James -- go read the long T Roosevelt quote:

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

"Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910

[Philip J Fry]

I think it is important to mention that in the liner notes of the MIchael Lind recording on the 'chamber music' CD the date for it being WRITTEN is 1951. At least according to the liner notes on the Naxos website. This could be a typo and it's the only time I have seen or heard mention of the piece being written four years before being published. I also haven't done any real digging.

[JB]

I think it is important to mention that in the liner notes of the MIchael Lind recording on the 'chamber music' CD the date for it being WRITTEN is 1951. At least according to the liner notes on the Naxos website. This could be a typo and it's the only time I have seen or heard mention of the piece being written four years before being published. I also haven't done any real digging.

It has been a long day, and the memory is certainly not at its "freshest" -- nor are any references close at hand...

...do I recall correctly that there was an acknowledged misprint of the date of composition on an early run of the Sonata by Schott?

Anyone else recall this?

(Edit: A quick Google search show that yes, there was a confirmed misprint on the earlier editions of the piece -- but giving a date that places it much further back than just fours years.
It also found that this has been hashed about on Tubenet before..., with somewhat similar results...)

[BVD Press]

I'm curious what the 'bad compositions' were before the arrival of the two sonatas. I mean, if you were to give a recital in 1948, what did you have to choose from?

No clue, but if the Journal was around back then we would know!

Wade: Thanks for your posts. Some really good stuff in there!

[iiipopes]

Elephant, I tend to agree with you. And then I derive my satisfaction from knowing that if we do our job well, even with all the limitations of repertoire, refinement of the instrument, etc., the rest of the ensemble can't live without us.

[BVD Press]

• Players are improving in many ways (yet our top soloists are still miles behind the top violinists)

That probably won't change unless you can figure a way to close that eight-year head start they get on the brass players.

Ken F.

Storytime:

During Oystein Baadsvik's October 2009 tour, I had him scheduled to perform with a newly formed (yes you read that right) orchestra for their premiere performance:

http://www.crvo.us/

Not surprisingly, Oystein received a standing ovation after each of his pieces (Gabriele's Oboe, Csardas and Fnugg) during the performance. What was surprising was what happened in rehearsal: A VERY skeptical-of-the-tuba-as-a-solo-instrument-orchestra applauded in the middle Csardas. I don't think it happens too often that any soloist gets applauded by an orchestra in the middle of a piece.

The concert was successful in a few ways:

1. MANY people exited and said "I had no idea a tuba could sound like that".

2. The audience was almost 40% larger than expected and the concert had to be delayed in order to get everyone seated. Not sure if it was do to a tuba soloist, but we all can hope!

3. A new orchestra is formed and is starting in the right direction. Check out the website for concert 2 in December (no tuba solo for this concert).

So how do we as Tuba players get more respect: We perform better than expected and show everyone else that a tuba can do anything a violin, piano, etc. can do. If we don't perform as well or better, we head in the wrong direction.