186 Bell replacement...

[ZNC Dandy]

I've seen in the archives about replacing a Miraphone 184 bell with that of a 15" Besson Imperial EEb. Has anyone replaced the bell of a Miraphone 186 with that of a Besson Imperial BBb of the same model? Or would they even match up? Do you think it would have the same effect as the 184/EEb swap? I was listening to some vintage LAPO stuff today, and was just wondering...

[mcfolks]

Dan Schultz is the person to talk to- he has 186 bells to do change over, and I think is the go-to person for that kind of work! Check his web page under 'Village Tinker'! In fact, he'll probably answer up soon....

[Dan Schultz]

I don't have any experience with bell swaps on a 184. But... I replace Mirafone 186 bells with a Chinese 186 'clone' bell with excellent results. If you want a Besson-like bell on a 186, you might look at using a bell off of a Yamaha YBB-201/321 tuba.

[jeopardymaster]

I looked into the 184 mod when I heard that Roger Bobo had done it to his, in part for hoped-for improvement, in part because the horn is very tippy. Eventually I gave up on the idea and got additional horns instead --- a) my 184 works just fine for what I need it for - quintet, solo and small ensemble stuff, b) the cost would have been prohibitive and the results potentially ineffective or harmful, and c) I stopped setting it on its bell (something I never should have done in the first place, doh [*insert slap to own head here*]).

If I were to consider re-belling a 186, I would want a better reason than maybe it'll play better - for instance, oh, say, because the current bell is toast. But that said I've seen some of Dan's re-belling efforts using his supplier of choice, and the results are uniformly first-rate. No need to break up a Besson or Yamaha BBb when a functional new bell is readily available.

[bisontuba]

HI-
I think a replacement bell for a 184 would be a Yamaha 321 Eb bell-15"--I think(?) Ron Bishop did this on his when he did the John Williams Concerto.
Regards-
mark

[T. J. Ricer]

Just to sum up what has come before:

1) It looks like the bells of the Boosey/Besson Eb, Yamaha 321 Eb, and Mirafone 184 CC should be, more or less, interchangeable.

See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35594&p=315032&hili ... 21#p314053

2) It has also been suggested that the Yamaha 321/201 BBb is a copy of the Boosey/Besson BBb and their bells should be interchangable, with this bell also fitting as a replacement on a Mirafone 186 BBb or CC (and by extension the Schiller 186 copy? - so you could take the bell from a copy of one horn and put it onto a copy of another?!? )

The following is pure conjecture - anyone have a thought on this?

- The 17" Yamaha bell for the 822 F (and the former 631 Eb) seems to be the same size at the bottom bow as the 15" bell from the YEB-321. . .

-the Besson 983 and 980 also have the 17" bell and the 981 and 982 have a 19" bell on the same/similar bottom bows. . .

Might these all be interchangeable, as they (might) have a common ancestor in the Imperial Eb? In other words, are there bells available at 15", 17", and 19" that would fit the same horn? (the way Fletcher has been reported to have had different bell sizes for his Eb)

Again, this is just me piecing together information from this and previous threads. It may have no basis in reality.

can of worms opened.

--T. J.