New Schiller BBb rotary

[jmerring]

I did it....broke the impass in my mind and bought a Schiller BBb. I just picked it up at the freight terminal a little while ago. First impressions: HEAVY!, large 4/4, antiquated linkages, that I am sure to get replaced. It speaks quickly and clearly in all the registers in which I am able to play, but the bottom end is very large. I imagine that it will tend to be a 'woofer.' I have no tuner at the moment, but as soon as I get my hands on one; I'll report to Tubenet on scale and intonation.

Wish me luck!! (please)

[WakinAZ]

Congrats. Which Schiller model did you get? Just curious...

[jmerring]

It's the BBb 4v lacquer. Dimensions almost exact match the Hirsbrunner HBS 192.

[jmerring]

Progress report: HEAVY HORN!!! Plays sharp (A=443). Stuffy Bb(below the bass clef staff)l all other notes are clear and clean. The g (first line, bottom of staff) MUST be played 3, rather than 1-2. Hopelessly sharp if played 1-2.

Opinion: With a little work and a bit more air, it'll be fine. I AM concerned about the linkages, though. They might be a bit delicate (old style, with screws on the valve arms - what they are for, is beyond me).

[Dan Schultz]

Progress report: HEAVY HORN!!! Plays sharp (A=443). Stuffy Bb(below the bass clef staff)l all other notes are clear and clean. The g (first line, bottom of staff) MUST be played 3, rather than 1-2. Hopelessly sharp if played 1-2.

Opinion: With a little work and a bit more air, it'll be fine. I AM concerned about the linkages, though. They might be a bit delicate (old style, with screws on the valve arms - what they are for, is beyond me).

Try for a tuning slide that's a dab longer. What you say about the linkage is 'interesting'. Can you post a picture?

[jmerring]

I can try to take a picture or two, but I will have to link to photobucket. I am totally unable to post pictures in the forum.

They are here:http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk131/jrmtuba/

My camera's resolution is terrible, but look closely and you see the nut(s) on the threaded stop arm(s). I have a comment on each picture below it.

[jmerring]

A picture link has been added. Any information as to the usage of the referenced nut/threaded valve accuator** arm would be greatly appreciated.

http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk131/jrmtuba/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank


**Changed from 'valve arm.' I really don't know what the thing is called, I only know that when you press a key, it is a straight rod from under the paddles to the valve.

[Dan Schultz]

A picture link has been added. Any information as to the usage of the referenced nut/threaded valve accuator** arm would be greatly appreciated....

I keep one of those exact same paddle assemblies around to repair rotary horns I get that have the linkages totally destroyed. Those threaded links with a knurled jam-nut are to lengthen or shorten the link to raise or lower the paddles. You have to take out the screw in the stop arm... turn the end... lock the nut... and put the pivot screw back in. All of that really doesn't make a lot of sense since the linkages are easy to bend around, anyway. For Asian versions of old technology... these mechanisms aren't too bad. I would say just leave the links alone and keep them oiled. They tend to feel a little flimsy but so far, I've not known any to come completely apart in normal use. If they cause trouble.,.. then worry about replacing them.

[WakinAZ]

It's the BBb 4v lacquer. Dimensions almost exact match the Hirsbrunner HBS 192.

Ah, for those playing at home, that would be the "American Heritage" (bizarre name for a Chinese copy of a Swiss designed horn) rotary version, or the "Schillbrunner" as it is was christened by the TNFJ.

[toobaa]

You forgot the "Frankfurt, Germany" part for whatever that's worth.

[jmerring]

To Tuba Tinker - my thanks for the recommendation about keeping the links oiled. I will guard them with my life. I also am pleased to know what those paddle adjustment screws - finally.

The American Heritage Label IS odd. It seems meaningless. The name of Frankfurt, Germany reference must allude to them making the plans (read duplicate) for the horns.

I have my first rehearsal coming up on Sunday, when I will use the horn. I am hoping to bring it close to 'in tune,' as possible.

[iiipopes]

Have you actually set the tuning slides to pitch as well as the main? Most slides need some sort of adjustment as well. Your 1st valve and 2nd valve may actually be a hair sharp by themselves, which we don't notice because it's so easy to subconsciously lip in.

My 186 1st valve has to be pulled @ 1/2 inch so Ab and Eb are not sharp, and this keeps 1+2 in line, with 2 pulled @ 1/16 to 1/8 inch. This also lets me shove 1 for 2nd space C when needed when using my recording bell. (It's right on with the upright bell - go figure!)

If it really woofs down low, then you may need a more bowl-type cup, like a Gieb, to get everything focused.

[jmerring]

Thank you for the suggestion on setting other slides. I have to pull ALL of them out: 2nd valve is about 1/2', 4th is as far as possible, third is out about 2' and 3rd about 3". I still can't get everything in tune to A=440...close, but no cigar.

[Mike Finn]

A picture link has been added. Any information as to the usage of the referenced nut/threaded valve accuator** arm would be greatly appreciated....

I keep one of those exact same paddle assemblies around to repair rotary horns I get that have the linkages totally destroyed. Those threaded links with a knurled jam-nut are to lengthen or shorten the link to raise or lower the paddles. You have to take out the screw in the stop arm... turn the end... lock the nut... and put the pivot screw back in. All of that really doesn't make a lot of sense since the linkages are easy to bend around, anyway. For Asian versions of old technology... these mechanisms aren't too bad. I would say just leave the links alone and keep them oiled. They tend to feel a little flimsy but so far, I've not known any to come completely apart in normal use. If they cause trouble.,.. then worry about replacing them.

I've got these same linkages on my Dalyan Prague (from the same factory?) and one did pop off during a performance but was easily screwed back on. Other than that, no problems in a couple years of service. They do seem flimsy, but I've stopped worrying about it. I use Hetmans bearing and linkage oil on it pretty regularly.

MF

[jeopardymaster]

That 4th valve slide being fully committed is a bit of an alarm bell for me.

Hmm - perhaps a sousaphone bit is in order for now. Maybe 2. And maybe a borescope to see whether something else is going on -- although if there were some solder blobs or some other obstruction it would tend to blow flatter, not sharper, wouldn't it, guys?

[jmerring]

Regarding the Dalyan; it probably came from the same maker. Their copies are pretty well done - aside from the tuning issue.

As to the Miraphone; that would, more than likey solve the probem.

Jim Laabs Music is going to send me a longer main slide, as soon as possible. They were very helpful.

BTW, when I had the Miraphone 186 BBb (had to sell it - financial problems); I had to pull the 4th slide all the way, also. Pulling the main tuning slide was counterproductive to the other valves and I only pulled it out about an inch or so.

I am going to try to get ahold of 1 or 2 bits, in the meantime.

[TUBAD83]

Regarding the Dalyan; it probably came from the same maker. Their copies are pretty well done - aside from the tuning issue.

As to the Miraphone; that would, more than likey solve the probem.

Jim Laabs Music is going to send me a longer main slide, as soon as possible. They were very helpful.

BTW, when I had the Miraphone 186 BBb (had to sell it - financial problems); I had to pull the 4th slide all the way, also. Pulling the main tuning slide was counterproductive to the other valves and I only pulled it out about an inch or so.

I am going to try to get ahold of 1 or 2 bits, in the meantime.

When I got my Schiller, I had to get a tuning bit and that solved the problem; once i got used to playing the horn, I no longer needed the tuning bit. Just be careful--it has some serious "knockdown" power--use sparingly.

JJ

[iiipopes]

Yes, I also have #4 on my 186 pulled out pretty far. And because it's "nested," it doesn't have a lot of pull to begin with. So it's not surprising to me that the Schiller would be short as well.

[jmerring]

The continued saga...The horn is inconsistent in tuning; but managable. It is very mouthpiece sensitive. It did not like my Schilke 66 or Miraphone TU33. It does like the Schilke 62 (no bowl). I just have to push more air into it. The Bb, A and Ab below the staff (0, 2, 1) are iffy to stuffy (how do you like that turn of phrase?). I checked the alignment (notches, only) and can see that all of the valves could stand a finer setting. They are off my just a few microns. The problem is; there doesn't seem to be any way to actually adjust them, without taking them completely apart (no screw; like on Miraphones, MW, etc). The sound is big and when I learn to control the amount of air, it will be fuller and more in tune.

More as the time passes; hopefully, for the better.

[jmerring]

Well, I have had an epiphany! No matter what volume level the Schiller is played at; it easily overpowers 1 other tuba, 5 trombones, 1 euphonium, 4 horns and the rest of our wind ensemble. The horn is most definitely an orchestral horn - meant to be the ONLY tuba and then probably not for a community band. I could not play softly enough for our director, tonight. Every dynamic marking was played at p or less - and it still was too loud. The acoustics of the church may have had some input too. They are very live and loud. I am hoping that at our holiday concert tomorrow, that the audience will soak up some of the sound.

Next; the bore of the horn (.787) is more than I can evenly control - YET! I won't let this big horn beat me. More on the continuing saga, as it unfolds will be forthcoming.