To add a 4th valve

[Roger Fjeldet]

I have an old Conn 20j - a beautiful tuba in satin silver, but sadly just 3 valves.
Does anybody know if it`s possible to add the 4th valve if I could manage to find a Conn 24/25j valve section?
I have already added a trigger on the main slide, but I need a little more in the lower register

[The Big Ben]

Probably cheaper to sell the 20J and get a 24J. From prices I've seen, the difference between what you sell the 20J for and the cost of the 24J will be much less than the cost of custom work.

[Dan Schultz]

Probably cheaper to sell the 20J and get a 24J. From prices I've seen, the difference between what you sell the 20J for and the cost of the 24J will be much less than the cost of custom work.

YUP!

The real shame would be having to scrap a 3V section to get 'donor' parts. Forget trying to use parts from a 20/22K sousa because the bore is smaller on the sousa.

[mammoth2ba]

Roger,

I've known people who have owned both versions of the top-action 2xJ Conn, who preferred the "false" pedal tones on the 3-valve horn to the "4-fingered" pedal notes on the 24-25J.

You don't mention how much practice time you spend in the pedal range, but I have no problem playing those notes in tune on my 20J. You'll also notice a big difference in tone if you practice in a large room, or at least one with a high ceiling.

[pwhitaker]

I'll drink to that: ... My 20J from that low Eb down to the pedal Bb is almost as clear and robust as their 4th valve counterparts on my 4 valve Rudy 5/4 Bbb. The 20J's intonation down there is a little easier to get accurate than the Rudy's, which is still very good. In particular the 1-2 false tone low C on the Conn needs no slide pulls or lipping down (the Rudy needs a little of both on that note.) I keep the 3rd valve tuning slide pulled a little which impacts the 2-3 notes slightly but seems to true up the 1-3 notes very nicely for the Conn.

[Roger Fjeldet]

Thank you all for responding to my question.
Seems like adding a 4th valve to the 20j is not an option
I have several tubas, among others a 6/4 Melton mod. Warren Deck, but I love playing my 20j.
I will listen to the advices and leave the tuba as it is - with 3 valves and lot of practise with bending notes

[iiipopes]

Here's the deal with setting the slides for 3-valve non-comp tubas for the least amount of lip bending, as has been done for literally over a century:

Tune 2nd line Bb, bottom of staff F, and low BBb open. If there is a difference between the notes, split the difference.

Tune 2nd valve a couple of cents flat so 1+2 won't be so sharp, but you can still center A nat & E nat.

Tune 1st valve a few cents flat, likewise, so 1+2 won't be so sharp, but you can still center Ab & Eb. 2nd space C will probably have to be lipped up or use 1+3 alternate fingering, but we're all used to that anyway.

With this, 1+2 should be simply a matter of centering the blow without significant lipping.

Pull 3 so 2+3 is a few cents flat. With the extra resistance of the extra tubing, Db and Gb usually come into tune by simply raising the back of the tongue slightly and increasing the velocity of air over the embouchure.

Now, with this setup, 1+3 should be pretty close, usually requiring no more lipping down than 1+2 would have before with both slides shoved all the way in.

As for 1+2+3 - fuggeddabowdit. It still has to be lipped as best as a person can.

[The Big Ben]

FWIW:

In another post, I mentioned a 20J I saw at TubaChristmas this year. It had a 4th valve hanging out of the side as on 3+1 Bessons or some euphs. Seemed to work well although I didn't look at it closely. Something like that might be OK money and effortwise because the 3v cluster wouldn't need to be touched but I bet it would look a little 'agricultural".

[Dan Schultz]

FWIW:

In another post, I mentioned a 20J I saw at TubaChristmas this year. It had a 4th valve hanging out of the side as on 3+1 Bessons or some euphs. Seemed to work well although I didn't look at it closely. Something like that might be OK money and effortwise because the 3v cluster wouldn't need to be touched but I bet it would look a little 'agricultural".

Y'know... a person COULD add a rotor to the main tuning slide on one of those beasts.... if he REALLY wanted to. A 20mm rotor and about 70" of tubing and crooks would about do the trick.