Suggestions on a solid F tuba

[timdicarlo]

Hey all,
I've been giving some thought to selling off or trading my Miraphone 184 BBb to finance a reasonably priced (but hopefully good) F tuba. I never use the 184 in favor of my Gnageyphone, and I'd really like to learn the F tuning while I'm in school and have regular access to professional instruction. I also need something a little smaller for solo and small ensemble work. So, that being said, what are your thoughts on a good F horn at a reasonable price? I have almost no experience with these, so I'm more or less open to anything. I'm also going to the Midwest Clinic on Friday, so I might have the opportunity to try out some of the suggested horns. I will say that I'll probably be buying used, I prefer pistons to rotaries, and I'd prefer at least 4 valves. My budget is definitely under $4000 and probably much closer to $3000, depending on what I can get for the 184. Any suggestions, advice, offers, etc. would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Tim

P.S. Tried searching for this topic using the "advanced search" feature but it rejects the words F and Tuba, as well as other descriptors like "good" or "cheap." So if there's another thread that would answer my question, if somebody could point me in that direction I'd be grateful. Thanks again!

[Bob Kolada]

The Cerveny 653/5 is a sweet little horn, and probably the best buy for an F tuba out there (here?). It is rotary, but it seemed easier to play for me (terrible at rotaries) than most other rotary tubas. Possibly partially because it's a small F and not a big Bb.

[jonesbrass]

The Cerveny 653/5 is a sweet little horn, and probably the best buy for an F tuba out there (here?). It is rotary, but it seemed easier to play for me (terrible at rotaries) than most other rotary tubas. Possibly partially because it's a small F and not a big Bb.

Of course, I'll second Bob's recommendation on the Cerveny Arion F. It does play very easily, has reasonably good intonation, and for me, there is no "dreaded low C." IMHO, it's a real "point and shoot" type of horn. Plays better than my old Melton 45. It plays as well in the low range as most contrabasses. Seems to suit what you want to use it for, and you can get a new one in your price range. Talk to Matt at Dillon's. http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... 3-5PX.aspx

[eupher61]

IMO, an F with less than 4 valves is useless, less than 5 difficult to deal with at best.

The Cerveny is about the standard now, as far as inexpensive but very usable low-cost F tubas. Try before you buy, as with anything, but especially Cerveny. The Fs, and the Piggys and other larger horns, do seem to be a little more consistent in recent years.

Other than that, look for a used B&S/PT model. Should be about in your range.

I'd also suggest waiting a bit before you buy, if you have access to one through a teacher, so you can learn to play F and have the feel for it. It's a different animal from a contrabass, and the feel can be quite different.

[timdicarlo]

I'd also suggest waiting a bit before you buy, if you have access to one through a teacher, so you can learn to play F and have the feel for it. It's a different animal from a contrabass, and the feel can be quite different.

That's the reason I'm thinking of buying one: my university doesn't have any F tubas and I want to learn the tuning before I graduate.

[Bob Kolada]

http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... 14169.aspx

This one looks interesting, and you might be able to trade your 184 for it.

[timdicarlo]

http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... 14169.aspx

This one looks interesting, and you might be able to trade your 184 for it.

Interesting thought-- I hadn't considered the possibility of trading my 184 in at a shop. I'm not terribly experienced with the selling/trading process, so i kinda figured trades were more a TubeNet thing. I haven't had fantastic experiences with Cerveny in the past, but the bell on my Gnageyphone is Cerveny so I guess I shouldn't judge. I'll have to give Dillon's a call...

I'm also going to Chicago for the Midwest Clinic on Friday and will probably have ample opportunity to try a lot of horns. Are there any particular models (besides those already mentioned) that I should make a point to try while I'm there? I'd like to play a wide range of horns before I make a decision so I have a better shot at getting my money's worth.

[Bob Kolada]

Have you also considered Eb tubas as well? You should be able to get a 321 for less than 3000 (they used to be very cheap, like 1500 used!).

Sam Gnagey had(/has?) one listed for 2400 on here.

[timdicarlo]

My teacher recommended that I go with F if I can only afford to buy one of the two (which is indeed the case), so that's more or less what I have to go on. I hope to eventually spend some time on Eb and learn that as well, but for now I'm looking for an F. I'll keep that in mind for future reference, though-- thanks for the tip!

[Norm Pearson]

....I'm also going to the Midwest Clinic on Friday, so I might have the opportunity to try out some of the suggested horns....

If you are going to the Midwest Clinic be sure to check out the new Meinl Weston 2250 f tuba. It's a fantastic f tuba: great sound, even response and excellent intonation.

Norm Pearson

[Rick Denney]

It seems to me that you haven't identified your requirements well enough to get good, specific advice. Here are some questions to ponder, and when you know the answers clearly, a choice will be easier to make:

1. Will you play it in an orchestra, with the hope of sounding like a contrabass?

2. Will you play it in brass quintet, with the hope of sounding like a bass trombone for some works?

3. Will it be primarily for solos, leaning to a more euphonium-like sound?

4. Will you play in a tuba ensemble, needing a sound with a unique voice in the midst of other tubas?

5. Will you play it while standing?

6. What is your budget?

Note that these are contradictory, so saying yet to all of the first four will not make your choice any easier. My first F was a 4-valve instrument similar to the current Cerveny. It wasn't bad, but I could not effectively use it in quintet because the music went too low and I needed a fifth valve. My second F tuba was a little Yamaha 621, which was excellent for quintet (and tuba quartet), and also idea for playing while standing (which describes most of the gigs for which I used that instrument). In tuba quartet, the Yamaha was the perfect middle voice between a C and two euphoniums. In a large ensemble, however, there was a limit with that instrument beyond which I could not go before it would start backing up on me. I particularly liked it in quintet because I could emulate a bass trombone more easily with it than with a bigger tuba. I ended up buying an old 5-valved B&S Symphonie, and then later trading that for a newer version of the same instrument but with six valves, to have an F that allow greater projection without sounding like a contrabass. I did not pay more than $4000 for any of them. If I wanted an orchestral F that sounded like a C and money was no object, the Willson would be high on the list. And don't discount the Miraphones, either.

Rick "thinking that choosing an F requires as much of an eye on requirements as choosing a contrabass" Denney

[MartyNeilan]

Personally, I would not want a solid F tuba. I prefer the ones with the big hole on one end and the small hole on the other. But, that's just me.

[Bob Kolada]

The Dalyan was going for under 2000 (and maybe just over 1000 for the 4 banger) on ebay right before they disappeared.

[timdicarlo]

It seems to me that you haven't identified your requirements well enough to get good, specific advice. Here are some questions to ponder, and when you know the answers clearly, a choice will be easier to make:

1. Will you play it in an orchestra, with the hope of sounding like a contrabass?

2. Will you play it in brass quintet, with the hope of sounding like a bass trombone for some works?

3. Will it be primarily for solos, leaning to a more euphonium-like sound?

4. Will you play in a tuba ensemble, needing a sound with a unique voice in the midst of other tubas?

5. Will you play it while standing?

6. What is your budget?

1. Nope-- at least not outside a university setting. My CC is my large-ensemble horn and the orchestra I'd be playing in during college probably wouldn't do a tuba feature, unfortunately. *sigh*
2. Most likely.
3. I'd like to use it for some solo work, but my CC will still be my main axe when it comes to major stuff I prepare for lessons and recitals, as well as large ensemble work. So... yes, but not primarily.
4. I do play in a tuba ensemble, but the professor in charge would probably keep me on the bottom part as I have the most well-suited horn for it (Gnagey 6/4CC) and the most well-suited sound in the low range. That might change once I learn the F horn, though, so I'd like to keep my options open.
5. Yes, but I also play the aforementioned 6/4 horn standing up in my rock band, so that's not as important as it might be.
6. If I can get something suitable for around $3000 I'll thrilled. It depends a lot on how much I can get for my 184 and various other odds and ends I plan on selling.

The main goal here is to get a horn on which I can learn the tuning and play it as sort of a secondary to my CC. It doesn't have to be perfect, but I'd like to find something fairly versatile if possible. It would also be nice if it didn't fall apart right out of the box. Price and all-around playability are the biggest factors.

[MikeMason]

I'm at Midwest now.spent the afternoon playing f's.the 2250 mw KICKS ***!love it love it love it.the petrouchka was a close second for me.the new nirschl BBb very good too.

[Bob Kolada]

Those who played more than 5 notes on the 2250...

Is the short main slide a problem? It seems as if there is enough "slack" in the leadpipe to offer a bit more room in the main slide.

[tclements]

I got a couple for sale. Contact me offline: ttuba@comcast.net" target="_blank" target="_blank"