Eb in college

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I think it's a great idea. Just look at all the professionals in orchestras and tuba recording artists who use only Eb. Go for it!

[Bob Kolada]

The only problem I have with playing Eb as your only tuba is that a big Eb would be best suited for such and wouldn't work as well for smaller stuff. Yes, I do have a tiny King Eb and an appropriately named Conn Giant Eb but it's just as easy to get an F and a Bb or whatever. I really prefer the smaller one for quintet playing. I would use the bigger one for most playing in 10-pieces or larger, though I have used my little King in a brass choir.
My big Eb rocks and is just as effective as a 4/4 contrabass. The low register is a bit different and perhaps my Conn isn't the best Eb in the world in the low range, but some modern large Eb's really kick it down there (Willson 3400, MW 2141,..).
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm19 ... hlk002.jpg

If you're really set on almost-one Eb as your only tuba, I would go for a 3400 and a nice small York/Conn/.... Eb for Bydlo, Italian music, and such and woodshed the snot out of your low range on the big boy. You don't to give anyone any legitimate reason to question your choice of an Eb over a contrabass!

[Bob Kolada]

To more directly answer your question, I have used both of those Eb's in a decent sized wind ensemble with 1 other tuba player on a PT4. Both work fine especially on divisi parts. The small horn added some nice clarity and punch to the group.

[Bob Kolada]

Thank you! It's rare my instruments get complimented.

I've played them a few times, but to be honest the last time I spent some serious time on one I was constantly thinking about the Willson. Both the Miraphone rotary Eb's are really nice, though I wasn't as impressed with the Miraphone compensating Eb. The Willson has more of the kind of sound (compared to the Star) that will stop other tuba players from complaining about you "not sounding like a tuba" though it can also lighten up rather nicely with a smaller mouthpiece.

[TUbajohn20J]

I was wondering do you think the Norwegian Star from Miraphone can sub as a contrabass tuba?

No! The star, to me, has a very stuffy low range.I say this based from me playing one, listening to Baadsvick play one, and hearing from others experiences on this tuba. There is no way that this tuba will substitute for a true contrabass tuba. There are better E flats out there that give a bigger sound, such as the PT 22. That tuba sings in all registers and plays VERY nicely. I second the Willson 3400, GREAT HORN. You may want to look into the new Kanstul EEb horns also. The 4 top action and 5 front action EEb look like they could be winners.

[TUbajohn20J]

Well, to me the Miraphone just has a stuffy low range but works great for high range and general solo playing. And I can say that the PT does not have this problem because there's a guy in my wind ensemble that plays one. I'm on a Willson 3100 BBb, 3 guys on new King 2341's, and 1 guy on the PT. The PT22's low range sounds equally as good as the 2341 BBb. This is due to the larger bore.. .745-.825 I believe(?) And with the 5th rotor he has no problem hitting pedals.

[TUbajohn20J]

I have no clue if it went out of production or not but the one he plays is only 2 1/2 years old I believe. I also have no clue why they consider it a 3/4 tuba!!! It is truly a larger 4/4 EEb and sounds like it too. I'm not saying the Miraphone "5/4" is bad, but you should probably go test one out and see if it will do what you need it to. Especially test out the low range on it. Same with any other EEb you are interested in. The guy in my wind ensemble uses a PT64 mouthpiece, which is a fairly shallow mouthpiece on his PT22, and the horn sings in all registers, especially the high register...but it does not sacrifice a good low register. Also, the new Kanstuls will be on display at the Army Tuba Conference Jan 29-30. It might just be worth it to go try them out.

[TUbajohn20J]

While on the topic of Eb tuba as my main; is it possible to have an F tuba as a main? or is it too small? And is their a way an F tuba can take the part of a contrabass? Is their a brand?

There's been some discussion on here about this in the past...and based on posts from numerous people, most F tubas are "too small" to be an all around horn. Even the 6/4 F's. With an F tuba alone, you won't get that "true American, full, sonorous bass sound" that a large ensemble (or orchestra) needs. This really can only be pulled off by a true contrabass BBb or CC tuba. But it wouldn't be a problem in a larger symphonic band setting where there are multiple tuba players on larger horns. The F tuba would come in handy and add clarity to the section. But I don't think it could support a band ALONE. But hey, there are guys in the UK that use an Eb alone for orchestral use

[TUbajohn20J]

Here are the new Kanstul's. They look like pretty beefy EEb's to me..hey maybe you can start the trend of using ONLY an EEb for all around use, which might not be a problem for one of these horns

[TUbajohn20J]

Those horns that some of them in the UK use for orchestral use are usually Besson 981's, great horns. But I say since you already have a C tuba, KEEP IT, and add an EEb or F to your collection so you can experiment on it for ensemble use. If you feel that it won't work well for that, you can always bring out your C tuba. And you'll still have that perfect tuba for chamber and solo use. Sounds like a plan to me

[Wyvern]

If you want an Eb to do all, then you cannot really do better than a Besson 981/982, or equivalent 3+1 19" bell. There are still orchestral pros in the UK who play in a symphony orchestra, using one for everything. It will do the job, but you will never get the breath of tone that a 6/4 CC provides.

If you want an Eb to supplement a CC, then consider the M-W 2040/5 - a great rotary Eb!

For F tubas - they do not have to be small sounding. I reckon my B&S PT-15 can provide just as big sound as an Eb, particularly with medium deep mouthpiece. I recently recorded it in concert, and could hardly believe how prominent it sounded out front with a bigger low register than any Eb I have played. However, I would not choose as an only tuba - its direct tone is just not appropriate in many situations.

[EdFirth]

If you're currently in college you should probably get with the tuba guy so you are on the same page. If he or she is on board with it you're in good shape but if not you could have four long years there. As a poster on another thread said, In Bririan, most subscribe to the Fletcher doctrine of mastering Eb before branching out to the other keys. If you are in the US it's master the C and branch out. That all being said I think one could do it all on Eb very nicely and there are alot of great ones to choose from. In no particular order Wilson, Kanstul, Miraphone, Meinl Weston, and of course Besson. If you are in the US the right facing bell could be an issue in some places. You mentioned studio work. They don't care as long as it sounds perfect, but orchestras have their traditions and you get the C and the necessary left facing bell thing working against you and you could get passed over for someone who doesn't play as well but fits their criteria. So to sum it up, run it by whoever you will be taking with at college and go from there. best of luck to you. Ed

[Michael Grant]

Well, there are certainly many good suggestions here. As with all things, many different opinions. I, for one, only have one tuba. It is a Willson 3400 E-flat. It is a great horn and can hold it's own in most playing situations (I can only imagine how could it would sound in the hands of a great tubist!). I know Jay Berlet (sp?) uses his in a great many situations and has always raved about it. A good friend of mine used one as his only horn for many years. However, with that said, there are times when my big@#% Eb just wasn't enough and I wish I had a contrabass horn to add the solid bottom in a large ensemble setting that my Willson could not.

I have used my Willson from solo to quintet to brass ensemble (tentet to 26 pieces), wind bands, etc, and it was wonderful. But, when the brass ensemble was 18 or more, there was always a 2nd tuba and it was a contrabass. My Eb would be in the orchestra for Mahler 1, Die Meistersinger (I think it would blend beautifully with the basses and still cut through when needed), many of the works of Revueltas, some of the Struass, etc. However, IMHO, it would never cut through or give the breadth needed for larger works (Mahler, Wagner, Tchaik, Bruckner, etc.). It just doesn't supply the bottom that the composer requires when writing for the tuba. When it comes down to it, we are the bottom. That is what we are paid (or not paid) to play. If your college orchestra is a smaller group then the Willson will probably be fine. If it is, for example, the orchestras at the University of Michigan, Northwestern, Curtis, Cleveland Institute, etc., it will not cut the mustard. Also,if the wind band at your college is a small wind ensemble and you are the only tubist, it should be find. In fact, they won't have a choice. But, if it is a large ensemble, you are only tubust, even the mighty Willson will not do the job.

For my playing (which has not been in an orchestra for many years) it works great. When a large tuba is needed and I am playing there is always another player on the contra. And, as I am not a professional player, I can own and play whatever I like. If I were a professional, I would - should - and better have at least a 4/4 CC or BBb in addition to my trusty Willson. If you are planning on being a professional tubist with aspirations of playing in an orchestra (as you stated in the beginning), you will need a large horn. I am not knocking the large Eb tuba. I owned only an F for years and I am very happy I switched to the Eb. It opened up my low register, plays more full and still has a singing high register. But I would never get past round 1 of any orchestral audition with it alone. For my money, if I were still looking to be a professional player and were back in college, I wouldl lust after a Hirsbrunner HB-2 or the like. You can still play Bydlo, Mahler 1, the Vaughn-Williams etc, on it. I know because 25 years ago, when I played all those works, I (and everyone else) used our CC's and BBb's.

my humble 2 cents for what it is worth (and with today's market, that ain't much).

[Michael Grant]

P.S.

John Fletcher did not playing just the Eb. He played a Holton CC BAT. If I recall correctly, he took 3 to 4 months off to learn it. Find the LSO recording of Prokovieff's Romeo & Juliett, Andre Previn conducting. You will here incredible tuba playing. Fletch could not have done that on his Eb.

Cheerio!

[eupher61]

despite many misgivings about this current thread...
NO.

A student is a student, not a professional. A student needs to play TUBA, not Eb tuba. Not F tuba. A student needs to play a large variety of music, differing styles, in ranges and sonorities which may or may not work on Eb, or F, for a learning player.

Tuba is comprised of at least 4 instruments. Once a professional, or amateur, gets totally specialized, one can limit the instruments. An orchestral player really cannot be a specialist. Neither can a studio player.

[jonesbrass]

While on the topic of Eb tuba as my main; is it possible to have an F tuba as a main? or is it too small? And is their a way an F tuba can take the part of a contrabass? Is their a brand?

Yes, it is possible to have an F tuba as your main tuba. One needs to look no farther than Germany or Austria, etc. At the same time, however, they also use a BBb or CC when the literature demands it.
Personally, my Willson 3200S is my main horn. I will bring out one of my CCs when I need to, but that seems to be less and less often. For band, an F can be a great asset in a section, doubling parts at the octave frequently and adding definition and punch. The German professional bands do this. I used my small Cerveny F to support one smaller band all by myself (i.e. a "section of one") with never a complaint. As a matter of fact, the trombone players loved it and the director (a trombone player) never realized I wasn't playing a BBb until I told him.
Having said all that, though, you are a student. Plain and simple, ask your professor. As an aspiring professional, you will be expected to be more than competent on BBb, CC, Eb and/or F. My personal advice is to stick with what you're playing on now (IMHO, BBb is GREAT for this) and spend your time and effort in the ol' woodshed. That effort will make it much easier to add another tuba to your arsenal later.

[Bob Kolada]

Find the LSO recording of Prokovieff's Romeo & Juliett, Andre Previn conducting. You will here incredible tuba playing. Fletch could not have done that on his Eb.

That may be, but I remember seeing a video on youtube of a high schooler (maybe even junior high?) playing a 981 in a very large orchestra on the Montagues and Capulets and sounding more than convincing. Maybe it's something in the water...

[Wyvern]

I did hear Owen Slade playing a Besson 981 in Prokofiev Alexander Nevesky back in the days when he was in the London Philharmonic and he sounded really great. It can be done on Eb, but requires an exceptionally strong player. But even then will not produce the breath of sound that only a big contrabass can provide.

Most amateur ensembles will be satisfied, but if you want to be a future professional, not a good move. Even in the UK (home of the Eb tuba), CC is taught today in music colleges.

[imperialbari]

I think it's a great idea. Just look at all the professionals in orchestras and tuba recording artists who use only Eb. Go for it!

Kind of sad that the OP didn’t get the true message from Todd.

Pina Colada may be fine for feel-good purposes. Eb basses are fine (I have 5), but dreaming of an orchestral career on Eb tuba alone in a CC country may have somebody waking up with a terrible hang-over.

Klaus

[tubashaman2]

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