822 F questions

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joh_tuba
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by joh_tuba »

I'm about to go all old man curmudgeon soapboxy on you. Please be patient with me. :)

The real answer:
You need to start attending tuba conferences. Play these horns and listen to lots of other folks play them. You will discover that 90% of the opinions on here are worth exactly what you paid for them and that the only one that matters is your own. Given 5-10 years of that you will discover that 80% of the opinions you used to hold are also completely defunct.

People make musical decisions based on their VALUES. What they care about in their own playing. You are looking for cut and dry answers where none will ever be found.

Values can change for LOTS of reasons, but those reasons all boil down to experience. When reading the opinions on this site take into consideration the source.

When you listen to other folks around you at school comment on another person's playing take note of how much more their opinion says about their own values and playing than it does the person they are commenting on.

The vast vast majority of the folks on this site are either college wannabes or amateur hobbyists that like to geek out. They are in transition somewhere along the journey with varying goals, experiences, and types of groups they play in.

ALSO, as you meet lots of professionals that I presume you would like to emulate I believe you will be surprised by the dramatically different values many of them bring to the craft and how notably different values can all lead to an enjoyable aesthetic experience. As you take lessons with those people take note of how even the seemingly different concepts being taught or emphasized are all really leading in the same basic direction. To quote a Chinese metaphor, when someone points at the moon don't just stare at their finger.

My advice: Look for the commonalities that make all of those people successful and learn to enjoy those things. Much is made of how different Jacob's and Bobo's playing are but what do they have in common? Hints: they are in tune, in time, even sound top to bottom, TONS of energy in their sound, and have clarity to spare. (sidenote: it's funny how if you really go to the trouble of mastering those aspects how little thought is ever needed to play musically and also how little/rarely technique will ever be a limitation in pursuit of that musicality)

Anything outside of those commonalities is just like adding a little extra spice to an already delicious soup. YUM!

The answer I think you were actually looking for:
People like the YFB 822 because of how it plays. It makes for a very even clear sound with very little effort. Intonation can be off but is managable by those that take the time to learn it. The ISSUE with these horns, ironically, is that the very even clear sound is also rather boring when MOST people play it. I think that the people that have chosen the 822 have either learned to produce a much more energetic sound OR learned to love the sound as it is OR eventually moved on to something that better matches their values.

Good luck!
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by cctubaneeds »

The problems I have heard with these horns is mainly the sound.

I feel these horns have a very good place to sit in but it depends on the player. The main endorser of this horn that I know ONLY uses this horn. He never plays CC or EEb or any other horn. In that setting this horn shines. In my opinion this horns is more like a too short CC. It has much more of a CC character than FF. With that in mind you can play orchestra and solo with it. I have even seen people try to pull off concert bands with them.

The things I did like. The upper register is of a F but it is a little darker than I would like. But the low register, one of the best low to pedal register F's I have ever heard. C down to D is just great. Dark, thick, in-tune(even the C) and had a real C tuba character to it.

If your looking for a solo horn and a solo horn alone, this is not your tuba. It does great but I personally think it is more of a small C tuba. And there are a lot of great small C tubas out there.

Just thoughts,

Ray
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by tclements »

I love this tuba. Every time I sell one off, I regret it and end up getting another one.
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by Chris Olka »

tclements wrote:I love this tuba. Every time I sell one off, I regret it and end up getting another one.
Yeah, what Tony said.....

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Re: 822 F questions

Post by tubashaman2 »

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Last edited by tubashaman2 on Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tubacdk
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by tubacdk »

tubashaman2 wrote: Brief List of Professionals you may know who play on one
Jim Self (modified model)
Chris Olka
Carol Jantsch
Tim Olt
Kevin Wass
Tom McCaslin
Lee Hipp
Ed Jones
Many others.........
Norm Pearson
Doug Tornquist
Tommy Johnson
Gary Hickman (frequent 2nd tuba in Hollywood studio recordings)
Scott Sutherland
Steven Campbell (last I knew)
UDELBR
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by UDELBR »

I've tried a bunch of these, with a variety of mouthpieces. Never kept any of 'em though, as I couldn't get open tones in tune with each other to an acceptable degree.
Bob Kolada
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by Bob Kolada »

I like the one I played, though I thought it seemed a bit "too pretty". To me, it actually seemed more like an Eb than a small C tuba...
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dvtuba
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by dvtuba »

I've always loved this horn and am kicking myself for not getting one when I had the chance...especially since THEY SEEM TO BE NOWHERE ANYMORE!! (seriously, what's up with that? anyone?)

I didn't get one at the time because my choices were either the 822 or the (at that time) new meinl 45SLP. i made sure to bring some other tuba players w/ me when i made my choice and they ALL agreed that the 45 just had a more crystal-like pristine sound to it. which is true. BUT. buying new horns for ME, at any rate, is NOW about what gigs i get called for. and THAT's why i'm now kicking myself.

here's my little breakdown...
45SLP
PROS: pretty much effortless high-register playing. berlioz excerpts just seemed to fly out of the horn, esp. romeo and juliet.
CONS: fair quality low-register playing with effort. NOT a quintet horn, imho. it is, as alton brown would put it, kind of a uni-tasker; an 'Excerpt horn', if you will.

822
PROS: all-around great sound, high-register and low-register. depending on the horn, even works well as sym. horn for the ENTIRE Meistersinger, as an example. imho, just might be the perfect quintet horn.
CONS: very few. all issues mentioned in other posts are (again, imho) not outside the touch of a professional or college-level player (i.e. intonation). dull sound, if any, might be most easily fixed by simply getting a SILVER 822 (if you can frickin find it).

I'm sure you personally aren't comparing these two horns, but this is just one scenario. MY scenario where I once found the 822 to be a remarkable multipurpose horn, but opted for another horn that made my excerpts sing. The 45 is great, but the cons ended up making the horn not much fun to play. I eventually ended up looking for another F.

Again, MY scenario.

yours truly and wishing i had gone w/ the 822,
dvtuba

seriously though, does ANYBODY know why you can't find any used Yamaha's anymore???
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JHardisk
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by JHardisk »

dvtuba wrote:I've always loved this horn and am kicking myself for not getting one when I had the chance...especially since THEY SEEM TO BE NOWHERE ANYMORE!! (seriously, what's up with that? anyone?)...

seriously though, does ANYBODY know why you can't find any used Yamaha's anymore???
In a quick search, I just turned up 11 822F's sold on Tubenet since June of 2009. Many of them were silver plated.

I'm not sure how many more you'd expect to find? That seems like a disturbingly high number of one model tuba being sold frequently... :oops:
~John Hardisky
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dvtuba
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by dvtuba »

oh wow, thanks! i meant more that i'm not seeing them at stores as much as i used to...dillon's, balt. brass, etc.
but thanks for the search!
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Dean E
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by Dean E »

My first F tuba was the 822 that I bought a year ago from a pro who moved up to a new, upscale instrument. The Yamaha 822 is super.

The only negative is having to pull slides to drain the moisture. Maybe there's a way to spin it out, but I haven't learned that trick yet.
Dean E
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by poomshanka »

A new instrument to throw into the 822 discussion cauldron would be the new Meinl-Weston 2250:

http://tinyurl.com/y95pgct" target="_blank

Shockingly good horn, and one that would definitely be considered a contender in this market segment...

...D
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Re: 822 F questions

Post by Bob Kolada »

poomshanka wrote:A new instrument to throw into the 822 discussion cauldron would be the new Meinl-Weston 2250:
http://tinyurl.com/y95pgct" target="_blank
Shockingly good horn, and one that would definitely be considered a contender in this market segment...
...D
I like the one I got to play 5 notes on at Midwest (then someone bought it!), but it seems to have a very short main slide and enough leadpipe to easily have a longer slide. Has anyone who played or bought one had a problem with this?
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