The rebirth of a Holton 345 has started...

[Bandmaster]

OK, before this turns into a bashing contest for whomever get to test play my horn, I trust that Dan would only allow someone to test play it that he thinks is qualified to give an honest appraisal of the horn's condition. To my knowledge, only 3 or 4 people have been allowed to give their comments on the horn outside of the guys working in the shop. I live a thousand miles from Seattle, so it is not real practical for me to go up there just to do a quick test play of the horn.

But yes, I am starting to get worried about not being able to play my Holton before I get too old and my limited skills slip away. It originally was to be a 2 to 3 year project... it is now become a 5 to 6 year project. (Although almost a year of that extra time is due to Dan having to move his business and set up a new shop.)

[UDELBR]

It's usually part of a repair job, to do a play test...some things are only noticeable when you do a play test...

Poster was not the repairman, but a walk-in customer. All right there in ASCII text.

[Tundratubast]

bububassboner "Who never buys a horn without at least two of his tuba friends testing it as well"

I' was going to comment regarding this horn not being For Sale, therefore no real reason for a play test. So I deleted a lengthier discussion on bubu's post, I don't want this post to go the wrong way. Because, also I'd like to see Bandmaster 345 someday.

[bigbob]

GoodMorning .. Is a horn with this much work done to it only worked on when other work is finished?? Dosent it have a certain time to start and finish??.... When I'm working on a custom piece that someone has consigned me to do I figure out how much time it will take me giving a few more days for the unforscene and do the art in that time period.. I guess it isn't the same with tubas.. I do have to say Dan's work is great !!..............................bigbob

[iiipopes]

As far as others playing my instruments, when I take an instrument in, I give specific instructions either way, depending on the instrument. I have one or two instruments that I prefer not to be handled (different from, but includes playing) except by the tech and myself. But generally, I am actually pleased that others are not only interested in playing an instrument, but it gives both the tech and myself an opportunity to hear and know what the instrument sounds like "out front," to see if anything else needs to be done.

[tubaguy9]

It's usually part of a repair job, to do a play test...some things are only noticeable when you do a play test...

Poster was not the repairman, but a walk-in customer. All right there in ASCII text.

I agree. I think that a repairman should play test a horn but not the joe off the street that is also a tuba player.

[Bandmaster]

Come on guys... drop it about who was giving permission to test play my horn. Dan asked my permission to allow people to test play it. If Dan thinks they are qualified that's good enough for me. Sheesh....

And yes DP, I know your Holton has been there as long as mine and is still waiting to get finished too!

[Mark]

OK, before this turns into a bashing contest for whomever get to test play my horn, I trust that Dan would only allow someone to test play it that he thinks is qualified to give an honest appraisal of the horn's condition.

Dan is very particular about who tests horns. "bububassboner" was in town for SEATEC and to sub in the Seattle Symphony.

[Daniel C. Oberloh]

OK, before this turns into a bashing contest for whomever get to test play my horn, I trust that Dan would only allow someone to test play it that he thinks is qualified to give an honest appraisal of the horn's condition.

Dan is very particular about who tests horns. "bububassboner" was in town for SEATEC and to sub in the Seattle Symphony.

Thanks Mark for making that point.

Now, if you guys are okay with the matter, we can get on with this thread that Dave has been so nice to share with you all. Not to mention patient with me and the time it has taken to restore.

We are finally at the final stages of wrapping up the project, thank goodness.

After having completed the design and fabrication of the mouth-pipe, I was satisfied with the way the instrument looked and performed. I ran it past a number of players to get there thoughts, opinions and observations, all were very helpful. Thanks guys.

I had to remove the mouth-pipe, bell, bottom bow and a few other odd bits to allow me to clean things up and to complete the proper final assembly prior to polishing and prep for plate.



The bell undergoing final hard buff. It will then be ready to solder in place.



The valve and inner branch assembly was finally cleaned up and made ready to receive the instal of the bottom bow and bell.

The last few parts to be made were the thumb ring and the mouth-piece receiver to bell brace. The originals were pretty much junk.



The original mouth-piece receiver brace (like all the spacer-braces on this instrument) was nowhere near as sturdy as one would expect. So, like the majority of the spacer-braces on this tuba, I scrapped it and made a new replacement. All such replacement parts were stylistically similar to the original but were made more robust. The pieces shown above are prior to final shaping and silver brazing, just like jewelry.


The new thumb-ring is made hallow. It was fabricated from brass tube stock that was annealed, filled and bent into a coil on a reel that I made. The coil was cut into 360o links that were then bent into rings.



Thumb ring components prior to assembly.





After boiling out the filler, the rings joint was silver brazed. The parts for the assembly were fashioned to a proper fit and finally brazed together. This pattern was based of the thumb-ring on my HB-2P with a few mods.





The brace and ring were a few of the last pieces to be soldered in place.


Got to have a lyre-holder, final soldering. Ahhh.



And now we are ready for a few more hours of strapping and finally off to the buffing room, some clean up and then we pack it up and ship out to the platers in Indiana for a nice heavy coat of silver. Won't be much longer Dave.


Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
http://www.oberloh.com" target="_blank"

[bigbob]

Great pictures and work Daniel!! What a horn! What kind of torch are you using?? is it a jewelers torch?? The bottom tubing is copper colored is that what it is?? or bronze? Thanks again very informative..................................bigbob

[The Big Ben]

Great pictures and work Daniel!! What a horn! What kind of torch are you using?? is it a jewelers torch?? The bottom tubing is copper colored is that what it is?? or bronze?

Look back earlier in the thread and there are pictures of that work being done. As a metal worker, you may find it interesting.

The copper is plating that acts somewhat like a skimcoat of lead or plastic filler for automotive bodywork. It fills and adds thickness to the metal where needed.

[J.c. Sherman]

Dan,

Why the hollow thumb ring? I usually use solid rod stock, so I'm interested in the difference.

Thanks!

J.c.S.

[oedipoes]

From a strength point of view:
A hollow ring is stiffer (less deformation for a given force) than a solid ring, for the same cross-section of metal.
This means that, if you make a ring out of solid, and one out of hollow material, and they weigh the same, the hollow ring will be much stronger.

But that could be not the reason Dan uses it...

Wim

[Donn]

From a strength point of view:
A hollow ring is stiffer (less deformation for a given force) than a solid ring, for the same cross-section of metal.
This means that, if you make a ring out of solid, and one out of hollow material, and they weigh the same, the hollow ring will be much stronger.

This is true, but what you would expect to see is rather that the solid ring would be heavier, having probably been made of similar material, and I think it would in fact be quite a bit stronger.

But maybe stronger is not a virtue here. If the little accident happens and enough force is applied to the thumb ring, you might rather lose the thumb ring, than have it survive intact but transfer all that force to the bell.

[J.c. Sherman]

From a strength point of view:
A hollow ring is stiffer (less deformation for a given force) than a solid ring, for the same cross-section of metal.
This means that, if you make a ring out of solid, and one out of hollow material, and they weigh the same, the hollow ring will be much stronger.

But that could be not the reason Dan uses it...

Wim

If they weigh the same, yes. But that pre-supposes that the hollow ring would have a wider diameter cross-section than the solid one, the only other way to make their mass the same would be a greatly increased diameter of the ring itself on the hollow one. But the same size cross section diameter and ring diameter being equal, the solid one will be heavier and stronger. And the hollow one could dent and be irreparable. So I'm assuming there's another reason.

If I hand make them, I use solid stock of a narrower cross section. Otherwise I usually use a Conn 20K thumb ring - big and comfy and beautiful.

With all that, I'm assuming there's another reason for the hollow ring. Not a judgment, a curiosity. It's nice either way.

J.c.S.

[Daniel C. Oberloh]

The design is based on the ring found on my HB2P, I really like the feel. From a fabrication point of view, It is a fairly large and thick ring that if made solid would be a tad difficult to bend and would have a fair amount of material waste. The other reason is temperature. To me, big heavy solid rings have a feel about them that I really find off putting at first blush. Conventional flat (plate) and spun half-round sheet rings have sharp edges that I am not particularly comfortable with either. My reasons are subtle, what can I say, I am a delicate flower.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
http://www.oberloh.com" target="_blank"

[J.c. Sherman]

The design is based on the ring found on my HB2P, I really like the feel. From a fabrication point of view, It is a fairly large and thick ring that if made solid would be a tad difficult to bend and would have a fair amount of material waste. The other reason is temperature. To me, big heavy solid rings have a feel about them that I really find off putting at first blush. Conventional flat (plate) and spun half-round sheet rings have sharp edges that I am not particularly comfortable with either. My reasons are subtle, what can I say, I am a delicate flower.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
http://www.oberloh.com" target="_blank" target="_blank"

Fair enough, and worthy of experiment on my end. Thanks for sharing

[Rick Denney]

From a strength point of view:
A hollow ring is stiffer (less deformation for a given force) than a solid ring, for the same cross-section of metal.
This means that, if you make a ring out of solid, and one out of hollow material, and they weigh the same, the hollow ring will be much stronger.

But that could be not the reason Dan uses it...

Wim

Wim, that's a false choice. The diameter of the ring is chosen for its comfort, not for strength or stiffness, both of which are well beyond adequate either hollow or solid. For a given diameter, a solid ring would be both stronger and stiffer because it would have much more cross-sectional area.

Dan, as a delicate flower, might not admit it, but I would be willing to bet (since there is no way to prove me wrong) that the hollow material is what Dan had available.

I will, one of these days, install a similar ring on my Holton. It was something I forgot to bring up when Joe had the instrument for repairs.

Rick "who doesn't like sharp edges" Denney

[Daniel C. Oberloh]

Dan, as a delicate flower, might not admit it, but I would be willing to bet (since there is no way to prove me wrong) that the hollow material is what Dan had available.

Huh?!

This isn't a Girl Scout project. I didn't use macaroni because thats all we had in the kitchen. Its obvious that Rick has never been in my shop and seen my material stock. I always have plenty of bar and rod stock in rounds and hex, plate and sheet in yellow, gold and red brass as well as nickel-silver and plenty of tube and heavy walled brass pipe. I am fortunate that I am in Seattle where the large firm, Alaska Copper and Brass is located. I think I was pretty clear in the previous post as to my reasoning.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works

[Daniel C. Oberloh]