Best new horns/equipment at the Army Conference?

[bisontuba]

Hi-
For those of you attending the Army Tuba Conference, which new tubas/ euphs and/or equipment were the most impressive that you felt played the best?
Thanks-
mark

[Cameron Gates]

I thought the Kanstul BBb with the upright valves was really nice. Bruckners were as advertised.

[bort]

How was the Kanstul Eb?

[Rotaryclub]

I thought the Nirchl C tuba was excellent, although the angle of the leadpipe would be a deal breaker. The Besson C tuba I was told is a relatively new design and was almost as good.

[UTSAtuba]

I thought the Nirchl C tuba was excellent, although the angle of the leadpipe would be a deal breaker. The Besson C tuba I was told is a relatively new design and was almost as good.

Any other thoughts on the W.Nirschl CC? The leadpipe looks pretty crazy.

Joseph "very anxious for the TMEA Convention" Guzman

[bort]

Also, any feedback on F tubas out there?

[KevinMadden]

I was greatly impressed by the New Nirschl CC though as has been said the lead pipe would be a deal breaker. The Bruckner was another impressive horn. I thought the Kanstul Eb was a solid horn, and actually all the horns that those guys had in that corner were quite nice. Especially Cassie's Donatelli Conn, that was probably THE BEST horn at the conference

[Dylan King]

I wasn't at the conference, but I love my Bruckner. I think I was the first person in the US to own one, and am glad I bought it, sound unheard.

The horn articulates like a 185, plays in tune better than a 188, and sounds "close" to a 6/4 Yorkbrunner. I recently recorded a few tracks in the studio for a local artist, and thought that it recorded great! I was especially impressed with how little effort it took to play in tune with the master track.

[Karl H.]

No F tuba tries, but of the limited amount of CC tubas I tried, I liked three or four. Of more importance was the different levels of financial dedication required for purchase: for the first time in my fading memory there were good/great tubas available to those not on an unlimited budget (read: 99% of us). The JZ CC five-valve tuba in the Baltimore Brass display was a remarkably fine instrument, just the ticket for the aspiring student. Really similar to a Miraphone 186/188, it had fine sound, great pitch, and even response. And the price was shockingly low! About what my BBb Miraphone cost dear old Irving High back in the '70s.

***DISCLAIMER*** I did all my playing in the elephant room so every comment re: tone and should be taken with a grain of salt. Response, physical comfort, pitch/slotting, etc, are just MHO, YMMV. And I used a Laskey 30H on everything...

I played a PT-20 P that was a beautiful, well-made instrument. Very even response, and good pitch except the C below the staff that kept wanting to slot flat, giving it an unfocused sound and slightly different feel. Strangely, this was the ONLY note with any sort of problem, and myself and a friend played all over the horn (if you didn't know better, you'd have thought you were playing a too-large F tuba, one that the manufacturer had taken excessive pains to "open up" the Evil C Below The Staff!). I also felt like a newb because I couldn't get real comfortable with the horn: couldn't figure out where to place my left and hand/grab slides.

The Besson 995 is a gorgeous instrument, robustly constructed and great fun to play. I could find nothing to complain about, and dozens of things I liked: great, even response, accurate pitch, wonderful sound (see disclaimer) and both the silver and lacquer examples were very similar, with only slight tonal differences (disclaimer). This was also the most well-balanced in terms of weight distribution and comfort i.e., it fell naturally into playing position and I felt comfortable at once.

But my favorite might have been the new 4/4 Nirschl CC sold by Gemeinhardt/Gemstone. What a fun horn! Everything was just right: quick, easy response, neat sound, never-touched-a-slide pitch, etc. I had a lot of fun just playing silly little tunes, soft, loud, changes of color, all were accomplished with no fuss whatsoever. And the price may be the best part of all!

Just so everything is out in the open: I play a Nirschl York Grand Orchestral almost every day, so the leadpipe angle no longer bothers me. In some ways the tuba feels more comfortable slanted that way, but then I'm 6'2" and can hold it easily in my lap.

Oh, and no one sponsors me...

Just felt like commenting because I was very excited to see so many quality horns being produced at affordable prices!

Karl "whose opinion and 25¢ will get you a cup of coffee in 1957" Hovey

[IOS]

The Gemeinhardt/Gemstone Nirschl BBb was a good, solid instrument. Most impressive was the fact that the D in the register was pretty much in tune. A good choice for those who are considering say, a King 2341 or something like that.

I thought the Kanstul Ebs were not good horns. The ergonomics on the top action was very poor (I have a big hand) and it was difficult to hold. The low register was barely audible even with a lot of air going through thew instrument. Also, the D - A - D - F# sequence centered poorly. The front action horn did not play well - stuffy with poor intonation, and very uncomfortable to hold. The lead pipe is way too low. This horn needs much more work.

The best instrument I played was the B&S PT-22. I have played a number of these (six or seven) over time and this was the best PT-22 I have encountered. Great open low register and wonder note centering throughout its entire range. The finish was also without blemishes. I have typically seen acid bleeds, poor solder joints, etc. Not this time. Maybe quality control is improving. The only negative was the right hand ergonomics. Again, I have a big hand and the relationship of the thumb ring to the valve cluster is just not comfortable for me. That, of course could be corrected by a competent repair technician.

[ZNC Dandy]

Forgive my ignorance. But the "leadpipe issue" on the Nirschl CC, is that because of the angle you have to hold the horn?

[UTSAtuba]

Forgive my ignorance. But the "leadpipe issue" on the Nirschl CC, is that because of the angle you have to hold the horn?

That seems to be the case, according to pictures I've seen.

Joseph

[ZNC Dandy]

I just checked out the pic of the Nirschl with Don Harry. I think that may be right up my alley. I like the tuba to sit like that.

[Wyvern]

Anyone take photos for us not able to make to see?

[UTSAtuba]

Anyone take photos for us not able to make to see?

As far as the Gemstone instruments are concerned, I've been viewing their Conference photo galleries at http://www.BarthsBrassBlog.com" target="_blank . Other than that, everyone else needs to bring on the horn pics!

Joseph

[Casey Tucker]

Just to clarify, the Nirschl's lead pipe angle doesn't angle the horn "up and down" (vertically) but rather it turns the horn slightly the right (horizontally, clockwise). Instead of the valves being directly in front of the performer, the valves are closer and more to the right.

I second the PT-20P minus the C. I own one and the low C is in tune as well is the second space C. However, first space A is a tad sharp but is easily cured with a short (1/8"-1/4") pull. The rest of the slides stay put. You can either wrap your left hand over the top bow which is a little uncomfortable or you slip your hand just between the top bow and the tube underneath it. My wrist fits comfortably there and allows me to access 1st and 3rd (4th doesn't need pulling; on slow lyrical passages implementing a Db, I use 1-2-3 and I pull 1st A LOT).

In regards to workmanship, my experience is a little different. I own the silver model and, even though I LOVE the horn, silver is starting to flake of in SEVERAL spots. I take care of the horn by wiping it down after I play and I'm still not sure as to why this is happening (someone mentioned acid bleeding; I'm not familiar with this if someone will clarify).

Just my .02
-CT

[bttmbow]

I was there for just the late part of Saturday, so I only got to go to the exhibits and say hello to some folks I hadn't seen in a long time, and also enjoy "toy time"!

The Nirschl Gemstone CC is not a bad player if you don't have enough $ to get the Besson 995. The leadpipe positioning doesn't work for me, but some people might find it tolerable or even prefer it. Nirschl's BBb, however seemed a bit better to me, although I think the 1st valve slide might be a tad long(?). I didn't spend that much time with it, but I liked the response and tone of the BBb quite a bit!

As far as F tubas go, I liked the Firebirds a LOT, but as we all know those aren't exactly "new". Custom Music had a few nice B & S F tubas there, including a JBL classic.

Bloke's new Symphony model mouthpiece played very nicely, in my opinion. This one is worth checking out. I might order one soon! It was also nice to meet Joe in person.

Giddings and Webster had a bunch of great stuff, too. Ivan is quite the craftsman, and a great guy! Nice to meet you too, Ivan.

Warburton has something new, but I can't remember the model #; It's a copy of Mr. Jacob's Helleberg, if I am not mistaken. It played very well, and I saw quite a few people walking around with those with big grins on their faces. I played it and liked it. (Maybe somebody else can fill in the gaps for me, esp. the model #...)

That's all I remember of the new stuff that I liked, FWIW.

CJH

[Wyvern]

Just to clarify, the Nirschl's lead pipe angle doesn't angle the horn "up and down" (vertically) but rather it turns the horn slightly the right (horizontally, clockwise). Instead of the valves being directly in front of the performer, the valves are closer and more to the right.

Does that not simply copy the original CSO York?

[ZNC Dandy]

did anyone play the Weingrill/Weril BBb with the mammoth bore? Any idea on street price? Looks enticing, kind of like a stumpy Fafner

[UTSAtuba]

My question is: Can the leadpipe on these new W.Nirschl CC tubas be replaced?

I've played a Meister Nirschl 4/4 CC, and had no problems AT ALL with the leadpipe angle. The comments about the W.Nirschl 4/4 CC tubas following the same design as the Meister Nirschl 4/4 CC seems a little off to me. On other pictures of the Meister Nirschl horn, the leadpipe is curved rather than "straight in".

Anyways, these are my observations.

Joseph