Schillaphone 186

[MartyNeilan]

Joe get to hear me play a few notes on mine when I was trying BlokePieces® in a parking lot in Nashville. He specifically asked me to play the open harmonics. On my horn, the 6th partial sags a little if you allow it to. However, it can also be played in tune if you think about it. Unlike the 5th partial, where it is much easier to just do 12, 23, and push in on 1 (or use 4); like 90% of CC tubas, it would take too much effort to play the 5th partial in tune without alternates.
FWIW, if you are used to playing a horn with a sharp 6th partial (as many CC's have), you will consciously or unconsciously pull down that partial. Transferring that to the Schiller would definitely result in a flat 6th partial then. It reminds me of when I started having trouble playing that same G in tune on my bass trombone some years ago. I finally realized that I was intentionally pulling the pitch down on my tuba, and unintentionally transferring that to the trombone where it was not needed.

Good horn for the money. Perfect? NO. But neither are $14,000 horns.

FWIW, I ran into a little of the overprojection problem as well; that is why I switched from a #1 Standard bottom to a #2 Euro bottom. Jury is still out, as I missed two rehearsals this week due to sick kids. Using the large heavyweight funnel Warburton-Neilan completely eliminates that, but is overkill considering the thickness and weight of the horn. The W-N nicely tames an overly live horn, but the Schiller needs just a little something to liven it up since it is heavier than a 'fone.

[Dan Schultz]

I try my best to remain impartial and silent on the issue of the imports but I can hold my tongue no longer. IF you choose to purchase a tuba via mail order or eBay... you are taking somewhat of a chance regardless of how great the horn that so-and-so bought plays. The consistency of these horns is questionable. You REALLY need to go play it. Don't be afraid to ask questions about the availability of parts should they become necessary... and make sure they have a reasonable return policy.

I hear horror stories almost daily about some of the horns that have been mentioned on this forum... and others.

For that matter.... I just cut a total of 7" out of the 4th valve circuit on a Conn 4J to bring it equal to the 1-3 combination. You see.... I'm not 'hammering' imported tubas. I'm just stressing the importance of knowing that all tubas are not created equal. Never have been... and never will be. No matter how consistent the parts are.... there are still humans putting them together.

Buyer beware. If it looks too good to be true.... it just might be!

[MartyNeilan]

Going back top the #1 / standard Blokepiece underparts.

FWIW, I played a last-minute church gig this Sunday morning in a very live auditorium (yes, it actually looked like a church!) Since I would be sightreading the first service, I didn't want to deal with the issues that I encountered with the #2 euro shank, and the standard is just now on its way back. I used my Warburton-Neilan, (big, heavy, funnel) and was able to get a huge full sound out of the horn. Had the room been acoustically dead (many modern "churches") I would have wanted a more lively mouthpiece.

[UTSAtuba]

Have any of you "Schillaphone" owners run into linkage problems? The linkage of these horns seem to pop up as a possible problem. Thanks!

Joseph

[Ace]

Have any of you "Schillaphone" owners run into linkage problems? The linkage of these horns seem to pop up as a possible problem. Thanks!

Joseph

Not a single problem. Smooth, silent, quick. Best linkage I've seen on any of the 15 or so rotary tubas I've owned over the years.

Ace

[MartyNeilan]

The linkage does not look as strong as many other tubas. I was very concerned about this at first. However, heavy use for the last couple months has not shown the slightest weakness in it. After all, it is only turning a free-spinning rotor: how over-engineered does it need to be? Keep in mind, a few decades ago we were doing this with a piece of string.
FWIW, if you look at the linkage on Getzen / Edwards bass trombones and the highly regarded Getzen G50 tuba, you will see a plastic linkage that looks even less sturdy. I had great reservations with it on my 1062, but it never let me down.

[bisontuba]

HI-
No problems at all with the linkage on the Schiller CC.
mark

[toobaa]

Likewise, been great for me. It does look "thin"; I'm used to pistons on top and occasionally i accidently grab my shillaphone by the valve linkage to hoist it. So far it's been really solid. And it plays nicely in tune too.

[UTSAtuba]

Is the thumb ring detachable? Random question, I know...

Joseph

[bisontuba]

Yes, det. thumb ring.
mark

[ZNC Dandy]

Well, i've had about a week with my nickel plated Schillaphone 186. All I can say is DAMN. Sound wise it has tremendous presence, color, and power. The intonation is impeccable. The horn is extremely flexible, and the sound is very malleable. My tremendously talented, and discriminating clarinetist girlfriend thinks it sounds better than any horn she has ever heard me on. The fit and finish on the instrument is wonderful. I was concerned initially about the nickel playing sounding "dead". But after the first few minutes those concerns disappeared. I also found out, after talking with my father who spent over 40 years in the metal cleaning and finishing industry, that the nickel plating is going to be more uniform, and thinner than the lacquer. Also much more durable. Its been said before, but this horn is an amazing deal for 3 times the money.

As far as the prejudices seemingly against all things Chinese, I used to hold some of them. This has changed all that. I can say the same thing for my friends Meizu "iPhone clone", which is MILES ahead of the real one. Thanks to Schiller for a wonderful product, at a price that people don't have to go into debt to afford!

[bisontuba]

Hi-
While this is not a Schillaphone 186, I did write a review of a lacquered version of one of these I purchases a while back--a clone made by JinBao-model 410 CC.

Today, I received a JinBao 186 clone--model JBCB-410S, silver plated 5 valve CC rotary valve horn and case from my friend in the NorthWest -Al (see sponsor section).

It is fabulous. Everything I said about the lacquered stenciled Schiller JinBao is the same as on this horn--a terrific horn. They REALLY heavy silver plate their tubas, and I love the sound difference. I could have easily lived with the lacquered horn, but for me, I prefer the silver. This is a true clone of a newer 186-5U CC. The compression is excellent, the pitch is right on, all ranges are easy and very clear--and the workmanship is excellent--all slides seem to be in alignment, all braces in fine shape (the 1st slide is a bit tight, but it is line--just needs to have '10,000 miles' put on it to loosen up...).

Also--unless I am mistaken, I thought the Schiller lacquered horn has the valves moving in the same direction--the JinBao has valves 3&4 moving opposite valves 1&2--so I'll have my repairman 'turn' valves 3&4 --and also install a water key on the bottom 5th valve slide (already ordered and have my Saturn water key ready to go!).

I am VERY impressed by the platting work done by the Chinese--a double 2 thumbs up!









Regards-
mark
jonestuba@Juno.com" target="_blank

[MartyNeilan]

It is fabulous. Everything I said about the lacquered stenciled Schiller JinBao is the same as on this horn--a terrific horn. They REALLY heavy silver plate their tubas, and I love the sound difference. I could have easily lived with the lacquered horn, but for me, I prefer the silver.

What would you say is the main difference in sound between this horn and your lacquered one?
Marty "who often thinks he shouldn't have sold his not-too-big and not-too-small Schillaphone 186"

[bisontuba]

Marty
IMHO, the sound is more focused on this particular animal in silver & the horn can change colors more easily. It is also more mouthpiece sensitive. The sound the 'silver plated' clone produces reminds me more of the vintage 186 CC tubas--I know that sounds strange, but IMHO it does--I love this horn!
Mark

[tubalex]

FYI I'll be using one of these on Shostakovich 5 on Saturday, September 10 with the Lafayette Symphony Orchestra in Indiana. It would be a good chance to hear one in the heat of battle played by a pro, if there's any interest.

[Wyvern]

FYI I'll be using one of these on Shostakovich 5 on Saturday, September 10 with the Lafayette Symphony Orchestra in Indiana. It would be a good chance to hear one in the heat of battle played by a pro, if there's any interest.

Will the concert be recorded? Would be very interesting to hear!

[tubalex]

I'm not sure if the orchestra is recording concerts at this point, unfortunately.

[MikeMason]

Regarding Bob's Jb f he tried that I now own.I don't think his opinions on this should go unchallenged .I've owned 5 f tubas and played on many others.the low range on this is the best on any rotor f I've played and can hang in there with the yamahas(I've owned both).there are a few notes that won't work with standard fingerings,or u can do a trigger.well built.I like the sound.rotor f tubas do not play themselves.I've performed for money around half of the f tuba rep,but prefer c for quintet, just to give an idea of my f tuba stance...not an attack on bob,just a contrasting opinion offered...

[tubaforce]

Regarding Bob's Jb f he tried that I now own.I don't think his opinions on this should go unchallenged .I've owned 5 f tubas and played on many others.the low range on this is the best on any rotor f I've played and can hang in there with the yamahas(I've owned both).there are a few notes that won't work with standard fingerings,or u can do a trigger.well built.I like the sound.rotor f tubas do not play themselves.I've performed for money around half of the f tuba rep,but prefer c for quintet, just to give an idea of my f tuba stance...not an attack on bob,just a contrasting opinion offered...

I haven't played an F I didn't have to work to tune yet! To be fair, I've spent most of my F playing time on a FireBird, an old B&S, and several JinBao's, in that order...I think part of the issue for Contra Bass players is getting used to where the instrument plays relative to it's Harmonic Series, but I don't find myself working as hard to play EEb Tubas in tune
Anyway, I'm glad you're happy with your F...
Al

[Bob Kolada]

Got a bunch of new horns Mike?
Some of the fingerings I had to use-
6 for B, 62 for Bb, 52 for A,... 6 for E in the staff (I think),... There are a lot more I just do not remember. It was learnable in that regard but I didn't like the sound very much. As for low range, I generally don't try out big rotary F's at tuba places but the MW 182 and Cerveny 653 are both much, much better. Much. That horn did have very good valves and pretty decent build quality.