Suggestions for a solid CC tuba

[iiipopes]

When Jeff Rideout came through town on the way back from Texas a couple of years ago, I got to try out a bunch of tubas. So did several other guys.

Two guys in particular were looking for a tuba to carry them through undergrad. I watched these two guys try them all. It came down to one guy really liked the PT-20, and the other really liked the PT-606. As I had finished my trials, I stopped and listened. Each sounded great on the respective horns. Then I asked them to switch. Each sounded horrible on the other tuba. Then they switched back. Each sounded great again.

The moral of this anecdote: like tuben says, try as many as you can. But like the others in the forum have said, nobody sounds bad on a 186. So if you have the opportunity to try a lot of different horns, or even if you have to work to get opportunities to try a lot of different horns, by all means do so, and then get the one everyone else who hears you play it says you sound the best playing it.

But if you are limited in logistics or travel, then rest assured you will never sound bad on a 186. You may not sound great, but you will always sound at least good to better on a 186, and by the time you get to the point you have defined your tonality, your repertoire and your career path, then you can go find the tuba you sound great on, like these two guys did.

[Bob Kolada]

nobody sounds bad on a 186...
But if you are limited in logistics or travel, then rest assured you will never sound bad on a 186. You may not sound great, but you will always sound at least good to better on a 186...

I think most people sound bad on 186's. I never understood how many people could play so unbelievably tubby on a horn like that. I think they sound even worse without a power sound concept. The most boring sounds I have ever heard have been on 186's and PT tubas (no joke).
I do not like them very much at all. I find them to be extremely difficult to play, almost impossible to slur on,....and I only like how I sound on them a quarter of the time, and THAT takes a while to be able to do. I would recommend almost anything over a 186/8 and probably a 188 (though I've not yet played one). I think the VMI 2103 is a much better horn in a similar style.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

What kinda of CC tuba would you recommend for a college student in need of his own horn?

I guess I'm the only one who thinks it perfectly OK to play on the school equipment? At least until you master the basics?

Surely the college student in question isn't going to a school without tubas available for students to play. What is the pressing need?

[NDSPTuba]

As some have mentioned, it is important to get a horn that you can sound good on. And that is the problem I have with the 186 suggestions. Many of you have in the past commented on how the 186 can bark in the low register if you aren't careful. I've experienced this very phenomenon with the 186 and is one of the reasons I would never recommend it to a young player. I spoken to a few accomplished players in the area who share my lack of enthusiasm for the 186.

Not to be contrary to everyone, but I felt the OP should know there are opposing thoughts on the 186.

I'd recommend the kalison DS for sale in the for sale forum. If the Gnagey is still available that would be a good one also.

[Bob Kolada]

Although I don't like the low register on the couple of Miraphones I play, I've never had a problem with the bark.....
I don't like it when I can't make a horn bark. Not that I do all the time, but if I can't do that I don't feel like I'm in control of the horn. Or something like that...

[Roger Lewis]

I've never heard anyone sound bad on a Miraphone 188. I own one and use it for just about everything. I would recommend this horn in a heartbeat. The great R. Winston Morris tells his incoming students to just show up with a 188, it'll handle anything that's thrown at you. Great tuning, great low register, great high register, beautiful sound, great projection. It will handle solo work, quintet (both my quintets love the sound of it),orchestral, wind ensemble. Mahler 2 - hhmmmmm - probably not my first choice but depending on the ensemble it could probably work.

Just a great all around instrument.

Roger

[iiipopes]

nobody sounds bad on a 186...
But if you are limited in logistics or travel, then rest assured you will never sound bad on a 186. You may not sound great, but you will always sound at least good to better on a 186...

I think most people sound bad on 186's. I never understood how many people could play so unbelievably tubby on a horn like that. I think they sound even worse without a power sound concept. The most boring sounds I have ever heard have been on 186's and PT tubas (no joke).
I do not like them very much at all. I find them to be extremely difficult to play, almost impossible to slur on,....and I only like how I sound on them a quarter of the time, and THAT takes a while to be able to do. I would recommend almost anything over a 186/8 and probably a 188 (though I've not yet played one). I think the VMI 2103 is a much better horn in a similar style.

And therein we differ. I've played with several guys with them, and they all sounded good, and this has been all the variants through the years: "stovepipe" bell, newer "vanilla" bell (although that's not necessarily my favorite tone), "recording" bell and my upright St Pete retrofit bell. And if that's not enough variance, Tubatinker has an equally broad selection of replacement bells that can tailor the flavor of tone as you like it, including Chinese bells, Yammy 201 bells, and others.

I agree with you in this regard: like any instrument, if it is not maintained and the rotors are out of alignment, it can get fuzzy. Also, even though they are fairly mouthpiece insensitive, if you get too deep a funnel or too large a throat, it can also lose definition in the low end, kind of like putting a Holley 850 on a small block without redoing the manifolds and cam to match, and a person wonders why the car won't idle, although it will turn over 7000 rpm.

But overall, for most things, my experiences and the experiences of those I have played in section with through the years have been complimentary to the 186. And I can slur on mine very well, indeed.

[bort]

I tried a new 186 about 5(?) years ago at the USABTEC. It was one of THE easiest tubas to slur on I've played, sound was great and easy to work with, and was just a lot of fun to play. The bore isn't huge, so it just worked well for me. Lots of bite, but only if you want it. I was shopping for a 1291 at the time, so it was "small" compared to what I was looking for. But really just "different," and I'd still really like to own one some day. To me, the 186/188 are really what a tuba "is." Oh, and the valves were fantastic!

I think younger players can have some trouble controlling the barking -- I remember a kid in a HS honor band I played alongside tried to blow the crap out of the low notes on the horn on some piece we were playing. I remember him muttering about the horn being a piece of crap, and I didn't believe it.

But surely not a bad thing to have to learn how to have control and make music!

[Tubaguyry]

I've never heard anyone sound bad on a Miraphone 188. I own one and use it for just about everything. I would recommend this horn in a heartbeat. The great R. Winston Morris tells his incoming students to just show up with a 188, it'll handle anything that's thrown at you. Great tuning, great low register, great high register, beautiful sound, great projection. It will handle solo work, quintet (both my quintets love the sound of it),orchestral, wind ensemble. Mahler 2 - hhmmmmm - probably not my first choice but depending on the ensemble it could probably work.

Just a great all around instrument.

Roger

Listen to this man! I played 186s, and HATED THEM with a passion. So when I went up to WW&BW last summer, I didn't even consider trying the Miraphone 186s or 188s they had. However, upon Roger's suggestion, I tried the 188. For me, it produced a far better sound than any of the other CC tubas they had (except for the Neptune rotary -- it wasn't too far behind the 188, but it was just a little bigger than I want right now). If I had just taken the advice of a lot of the people on this forum, I would have just ordered a Thor. If I had done that, I would have been VERY disappointed, as when I actually played the Thors at WW&BW, they weren't a match for me.

That said, I think it would be hard to go wrong with a Miraphone 188 as an all-around horn. The intonation is damn near perfect, it has a fabulous low register, it is easy to play, and compared to a lot of new CCs it is inexpensive.

For the benefit of the poster who asked for it, here's a list of other CCs I've tried:

1946 Rusk-cut York
Miraphone 184
Cerveny 681
Neptune rotary
PT-6
PT-6P
PT-606
PT-20
HB-1P
Nirschl 4/4
MW 5450
MW 2145
MW 2155
Miraphone 186
Miraphone 1291
Miraphone 1292
Besson 995
Weril 681
Yamaha 621
Getzen CB-50

I feel like I'm missing some. If I remember them later, I'll add them.