Mirafone BBb 18 mouthpiece

[sugawi]

Dear tubenetters,
I've got mouthpiece that I can't find any information about. The measurements are similar to Bach 18, 32mm/1.26 in wide. Seems like a Mirafone version of Bach 18. Also would be interesting to know where it belongs as far as production years.
The markings on the mouthpiece state: MIRAFONE BBb 18

Here are some pictures in comparison with Bach 18 on the left and Conn Helleberg 120S on the right.

[Chriss2760]

I've got one of these too. I bought it from the old Miraphone distributor in Glendale CA in the summer of 1977. It was in the catalog at that time. I played a bunch of mouthpieces that day and this one worked the best for me (at the time.) Plays a lot like a Bach 18, but the rim is flatter and more narrow, and the mp is lighter overall, which results in more 'feedback', which leads to more control for the player. This and the PT-88 are my standard bowl shaped mouthpieces for my Miraphone 186 and Yamaha 621 (both BBb.)

[iiipopes]

How is the depth of cup compared to a "real" Bach 18?

[Toad Away]

Thanks for the memory.
Used one while a student at North Texas
with my Bell Model 4v CC that I got in
Geretsreid (1969).
Can't recall where I got the mouthpiece, but likely
it was from Ev Gilmore. Used it all the time, but let it go with the
MW that I sold to afford a Miraphone 186 5v.
Please let me know if you are willing to part with it.
Thanks

[sugawi]

Thank you for great insights. Seems like I have a rare mouthpiece that is desirable by few but most likely will not be worth that much for me to part with.
Here are some measurements.
It's little deeper compared to Bach 18, but not by much.
Bach 18 is 1.37in/34.8mm.
Mirafone 18 is 1.42in/36mm.
So it's only 0.04 difference.
I also noticed that it's little shorter than other mouthpieces.
Bach 18 is 3.94in/100mm and Mirafone is 3.86in/98mm.

I wonder what tuba it was recommended for or it was just a Mirafone copy of Bach 18. Also it seems like it's different from other popular older Mirafone pieces like C3 and C4.

[Toad Away]

PM sent.

[iiipopes]

Thanks.

It sounds like it could have been modeled on a a particular Mt Vernon 18 specimen, as with every mouthpiece then being hand-made, there were more variations on the finished product, especially as the cutters would wear while making a batch, than now with lasers and CNC used for "absolute" consistency.

Up until a generation ago, tuba mouthpiece hunting was much like tuba safaris are now. There weren't that many models, and of what there were each tech might lean into the cutter, or not, a little differently, and every buffer might lean, or not, into the buffing wheel differently, so there was much more variation among specimens of the same model, leading to the lore of "bad - fair - good - better - sell the farm to get this one" mouthpiece luck of the draw of the same model.

But it still happens. I've had two Bach 18's in the last couple of years. The one I had a year or so ago was a couple years older than that and had a 1.28 slightly deeper cup; the rim was more narrow as a consequence, looking more like a tuba version of a Bach 3C trumpet mouthpiece, and the backbore had something about it that made the mouthpiece feel and sound "grainy." The Bach 18 I have now seems to be "post strike," has the traditional sloped rim, 1.26 or 1.27 shallower cup, depending on how you measure, and a smoother throat/backbore transition. It has a raspy low register, so I won't be using it in ensemble, but a really clear and singing high register, suitable for solo work, and one of the few moutpieces that keeps the upper register of my 186 well in tune.

The point of this digression is that the value of the mouthpiece lay where it plays, and what the player wants to get out of it.

[sugawi]

I'm just a beginner tuba player so for me they both sound similar. This is tells me that I need to go back and practice instead of measuring mpcs. I just thought that it would be intersting to learn something new.

Speaking of numbers I noticed that Mirafone goes little deeper. At first I thought that it's just shorter. But after measuring I found out that taper of the shank is little different. At the narrow point of the shank they are both the same, 13.3mm/0.53in. At the widest point Mirafone is 15.0mm/0.59in and Bach is 15.25mm/0.60in. The length of shank is the same but Mirafone goes inside 27.7mm/1.01in and Bach 26.2mm/1.03in.

The previous poster said it best:

The point of this digression is that the value of the mouthpiece lay where it plays, and what the player wants to get out of it.

Edit:
I found this mouthpiece in this chart comparison from 2002 by Doug Elliot mouthpieces:
http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/pdf/catalog.pdf