F tuba vs. C tuba

[tubademon999]

Hey fellow Tubenetters. I wanted to ask. I currently own the Kanstul 4 valve 3/4 CC, and it's an awesome little horn. But I'm eventually going to need a big CC, as well as an F. I wanted to ask everyone what they think I should get first, my F or my big CC.

Thanks very much,
Cody Kleinhans
Fullerton College

[jonesbrass]

Hey fellow Tubenetters. I wanted to ask. I currently own the Kanstul 4 valve 3/4 CC, and it's an awesome little horn. But I'm eventually going to need a big CC, as well as an F. I wanted to ask everyone what they think I should get first, my F or my big CC.

Thanks very much,
Cody Kleinhans
Fullerton College

Cody, before you decide to pull the trigger on a new horn, ask yourself a few questions. What does my teacher think? Is there something wrong with the horn you have? Why do you believe you'll need a big CC? (Because the "big name" tuba players "have" them?) Why do you need an F? What is the sound you really want/will be marketable in finding a job?

PS defenitly get the F tuba first; giant CC tubas are a novelty act.

If you absolutely MUST buy another horn, I agree with Brian on this one.

[Mojo workin']

I think you should get a bigger CC first. It can take you more places. But that is my own opinion, it is not impossible to do the same thing on an F as a CC. Nothing is impossible as long as you can dream it you can reach it.

Agree with first two sentences. Disagree with last sentence.

One should have realistic, obtainable "dreams".

[Bob Kolada]

I say keep your current "half F-half C" tuba*, or get a decent contrabass and a nice bass tuba. Generally speaking, the more finesse stuff you'd play would be more bass tuba stuff- solos, brass quintets,....

*Different mouthpieces might be something to look into in this case.

[cctubaneeds]

*

[tubademon999]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I really appreciate the feed back. Let me clarify a few things.

First, I am a Tuba performance major, playing in 2 orchestras, a few wind symphonies, a quintet, etc. Im doing all of it. I play a lot of excerpts, gearing up for college auditions (for Colburn, next year if the spot is open), as well as playing solo material.

Second, my horn is small. Yes, I can get a surprisingly big sound, but I've had situations where its just not enough, namely when i played Mars, Tchaikovsky 5, and 1812. My high register is fine. Ive got E's above middle C, and on good days, F's. The problem is my low register. Once i play loud enough, it sounds like ripping sheet metal. Ive played on bigger horns, and they dont have this problem (with me).

Third, (and actually, this should be first) I'm not getting a new horn in the near, near future. I am just asking which should be first, since i plan to get both. This is something for like, 5 years in the future or more.

Thanks again,
Cody Kleinhans

[Bob Kolada]

First, I am a Tuba performance major, playing in 2 orchestras, a few wind symphonies, a quintet, etc. Im doing all of it.

I played a very small Eb (and later a larger Eb) as a tuba major and it worked out just fine. Yes, there were a few haters. Yes, I didn't care about them.

Second, my horn is small. Yes, I can get a surprisingly big sound, but I've had situations where its just not enough, namely when i played Mars, Tchaikovsky 5, and 1812. My high register is fine. Ive got E's above middle C, and on good days, F's. The problem is my low register. Once i play loud enough, it sounds like ripping sheet metal. Ive played on bigger horns, and they dont have this problem (with me).

No superstar here myself, but I would aim for a higher, comfortable, high range up high. See if you can spend some time on a euphonium, and if not plunk out some stuff on a piano and really listen to the notes. You will want to have at least an easy E-ish.
Try and relax in the low register and think big and full. Not to imply this is where you're at now (or the opposite!), but a low register with some zip is not a bad thing.
You might try some plastic tubing around your bell. This helped a bit on my bass trombone for particularly "bombastic" moments, though I keep forgetting to pick up the right size for my tubas to try it out there.

Third, (and actually, this should be first) I'm not getting a new horn in the near, near future. I am just asking which should be first, since i plan to get both. This is something for like, 5 years in the future or more.

I still stand by my comments in my above post, but I completely understand your scenario. I've been mired there for years myself!
I might suggest listening to some players who have made it big on similar sized tubas- Harvey Phillips, Chuck Daellenbach,... so you can get an idea of what is possible on a tuba like yours.


Good luck!

[Bob Kolada]

I think this is important enough to put in a separate post- what are your goals as a tuba major? If you are not wedded to an orchestral/... gig and want to freelance, teach,... I would suggest keeping your current tuba and getting, and becoming proficient on, a bass trombone and electric bass. Yes there are more tenor trombone gigs out there, but tenor can be a difficult adjustment for a tuba player. Electric bass and bass trombone can open up a lot of doors for you. Even though I think of myself as a valve guy, my bass trombone paid for itself more easily than any tuba I've owned. The euphonium did even better, but then again it was a junior high gift from my parents (=free) and I was lucky enough to find a brass band nearby. Don't count on that last part.

[JHardisk]

... The problem is my low register. Once i play loud enough, it sounds like ripping sheet metal.

I think you might also consider a new mouthpiece in the short term. The 28H is a very live mouthpiece, and in the wrong hands, can be an unintended weapon. They ought to do a background check before letting people buy these!

Laskey makes other cups with the 28 rim that might tame that low register a bit.

[Rick Denney]

It sounds as though you are already playing in large ensembles, and most tuba players will continue to do so. It's easier to make a small C do the work of an F than to make a large F do the work of a C. The small C you have now can serve all your small ensemble and solo needs reasonably, and you already own it.

A bigger C would make it easier to play in larger ensembles. But you didn't say how big is big. I don't think anyone in your situation really needs a 6/4 tuba, and despite how much I enjoy playing one it wouldn't be as useful as the only instrument in my collection. A so-called 5/4 C (most of which are really largish 4/4 instruments in my view) will meet nearly all needs in larger ensembles and will provide a bit more useful overlap with your small C.

To say it another way, I think if you buy the F first, you would find yourself with the same limitations you have now. But if you add a bigger tuba to what you already have, you will expand beyond your current limitations to a greater extent. But if the tuba you buy is too big, you might end up with limitations again.

Rick "versatility first" Denney

[jonesbrass]

. . . And do you need an F, front action EEb's are really taking over... More versatile, better low end, more tonal flexibility.

Ray Basaraba

I can't agree with this at all. The key of your bass tuba is a personal choice; "more versatile, better low end, more tonal flexibility": all of these have FAR more to do with the player attached to the mouthpiece than the horn attached to it.

[bort]

This is something for like, 5 years in the future or more.

5 years is a very long time, especially the 5 years between HS and end of college. Both personally and developing as a tuba player. If you're having doubts about your current setup *before* going to college, do not plan on waiting it out until *after* college to resolve it. Talk to your teacher, and set yourself up for success. Or, if I've misunderstood the situation, just talk to your teacher and start saving some $$.

If it were me, I'd want a 4/4 or 5/4 tuba (BBb or CC, doesn't really matter) for college.

But also, don't think of it as outgrowing the 3/4 tuba. There is always a time and place for a 3/4 tuba. But they are not typically (IMO) the best decision for a large ensemble.

[Roger Lewis]

It sounds like you've got some good things going for you.

To just answer your question, I personally feel you should get a competitive CC tuba. It doesn't have to be a BAT, but an all around horn that will let you do all the things that you have listed. My PERSONAL recommendation would be to look at the Miraphone 188. I love the Thor, but it might be a tad big in a quintet setting and would require a bit more finesse and control. The 188 would let you just play it and not have to "tame" it. The sound is great, the tuning is great, the low register and high register is great - there's not a lot of "suckage". I own one and use it a lot. It gets a lot more use than my Yorkbrunner or my 1292.

When you look at the audition scene, 90% of what you will do in an audition will be on the CC tuba. Only 10% will be on the F tuba. If you win the gig, then 95% of what you will do will be on the CC tuba and only 5% on the F. Go with the CC tuba and really learn to play it - inside out and upside down. Know your scales (all of them) and have solid fundamentals and everything else comes with quality teaching and smart practicing.

These are MY OPINIONS and MY ANSWERS to the questions you posed - without passing judgement.

All the best.

Roger

[windshieldbug]

It's easier to make a small C do the work of an F than to make a large F do the work of a C.

What he said. Also factor in how much you ACTUALLY need an F.

If you win the gig, then 95% of what you will do will be on the CC tuba and only 5% on the F.

What he said, as well.

If you're going to pick 1, get what works for you. And don't get something that will sit in it's case 97% of the time, even if you like the way it feels the other 3%.

[Uncle Buck]

I'd say the advice you've gotten from Rick Denney, Roger Lewis, and bloke combine to give you an extremely valuable response to your original question - and that your question is answered at this point.

[UTSAtuba]

I recently heard a concert where an extraordinarily fine player used a 188 to extraordinary advantage. Local top-drawer musicians (NON-tuba players) were extremely impressed with that players' (more than any other individual in the ensemble) sound, musicianship, and intonation.

Would this fine player happen to be Matthew Gaunt?