Yamaha York?

[tubaguy9]

[poomshanka]

Some info that may be of use to you:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20294" target="_blank

[MileMarkerZero]

DISCLAIMER:

I have not played, nor am I likely to ever play a YamaYork. So my response pertains to the statements dealing with Yamaha sounds in general - not the YamaYork in particular.

I have played several Yammys over the years, a couple of them extensively. To my ear, they were all very serviceable-sounding horns. You can do a lot with the sound, but it has its limits. To me, the "Yamaha sound" is like a Toyota Camry: while somewhat ubiquitous, it will do everything that 99.99% of drivers need it to do. It will do more than 95% of all drivers will ever need it to do. But you don't put a Camry on the track at Le Mans. Now, Toyota Racing makes some bad-arsed vehicles that run on various racing circuits. But they are prohibitively expensive for any normal driver, cannot be ordered from the factory, and driving them on the streets of Anywhere, USA doesn't make much sense. You would only tap 1/10th of 1% of the vehicles potential. Likewise an exclusive handmade 6/4 YamaYork. Unless you are having to support a monster brass section like the LAPO, the CSO, the NYP, or a few other major-league ensembles (or are auditioning to do so), all by your lonesome (and getting paid quite a bit of money to do it), then, IMO you are actually doing a dis-service to the instrument. It's like having a Lambo and never driving over the speed limit.

I suspect that that is why Yamaha doesn't offer them for general sale.

So you do what any red-blooded American male would do - buy a Corvette for < 1/10th the price, and be satisfied that you will still blow the doors off of most anything out there - except a Lambo/Ferrari/Bugatti/etc. Or, in our world, you buy a Thor/1291/PT6/etc. and learn to play the crap out of it.

[cambrook]

There's a lot of cr*p and speculation written in threads like this. While comments about the "Yamaha sound" might apply (to some degree) to most tubas that Yamaha make, the YamaYork is a hand built tuba and not a factory produced one. The only thing it shares with the thousands of its more numerous stablemates is the name.

Last year I spent some time comparing a YY to my handmade MW 6450/2 "Baer". I'd have been very happy with either tuba, but for me and my situation (size of orchestra, concert hall acoustic etc) I'd still have chosen the Baer if I was given a choice of both. The main advantage for me was the ability to play slightly "smaller" on the Baer (more towards a 4/4 sound) whereas the YY felt like it would always be a big tuba. I know that sounds kinda "airy fairy" in word-land, and maybe that impression would change if I spent more time on the YY.

The 2 tubas were quite similar in most ways, as if 2 different high-end makers were given the same design objective and basic outline, and were then left to figure out the details.
Funny thing, that ........

Since then I've lifted the leadpipe off the bell on the Baer and it's made it an even better tuba

Handmade tubas like these always have differences from instrument to instrument, but a good Nirschl, a good Baer or a good YamaYork are each wonderful in their own way.

BTW, I don't agree with the comments about the YY being not available to mere mortals etc - I could have bought one if I wanted to pay the price, and I'm far from the top of the list of famous players.
You think they're expensive in the USA, you should have seen what Yamaha Australia had for the list price!!

Cheers,

Cam

[pigman]

Answer1 about 10 minutes but all I needed was 2
** Jake never belived the yorks were perfect. They worked for him. Not to detract from his great playing, But Better players made beuitiful music on worse horns . Way worse horns.
Answer #1 Im not old or grumpy
Answer #2 I made a living playing
Answer #3 I made a living playing a horn I was allowed to buy
Answer #4 The Swine flu shot is poison

Bugger a company that has the nerve to
A) sell a horn for that much money
B) Pass judgement on any player
C) if it weren't for the serious amature Yam would be king of toilet seats or electric pianos

Its not the horn is the player

Try playing Blue bells on one of Arthur Pryors trombones.
It aint the horn

[J.c. Sherman]

To me, the "Yamaha sound" is like a Toyota Camry: while somewhat ubiquitous, it will do everything that 99.99% of drivers need it to do. It will do more than 95% of all drivers will ever need it to do. But you don't put a Camry on the track at Le Mans. Now, Toyota Racing makes some bad-arsed vehicles that run on various racing circuits. But they are prohibitively expensive for any normal driver, cannot be ordered from the factory, and driving them on the streets of Anywhere, USA doesn't make much sense. You would only tap 1/10th of 1% of the vehicles potential. Likewise an exclusive handmade 6/4 YamaYork. Unless you are having to support a monster brass section like the LAPO, the CSO, the NYP, or a few other major-league ensembles (or are auditioning to do so), all by your lonesome (and getting paid quite a bit of money to do it), then, IMO you are actually doing a dis-service to the instrument. It's like having a Lambo and never driving over the speed limit.

Well said...

This “Camry/Racing Car” argument is perhaps the perfect reason to explain why I own what I own, including several Yamahas.

For me, every composition has a perfect instrument, especially in older works where national sounds and tubas were wildly different. I can't own or get to know well that many instruments. So, for instance, I play a Yamaha 621 F. I own this because it is well built, and can handle 99.99% of the F literature capably. Is it perfect for everything? Is it ideal for most works? No. But it's well built, reliable, well in tune, flexible in tone and acrobatic playing, and just serves a wide range of purposes well. It can do it all.

In a perfect world, I'd reshuffle a few things and have an Alex F and perhaps this or the 822. In a perfect world where I have a full time job, I'd select an instrument which worked particularly well with the ensemble to which I was a member. But since I must play with many ensembles in many contexts, I play a Yamaha. And I'm proud to do so. My Euphonium, Baritone, Bell Front, and trombone all make me happy for this reason. Others have other tastes. But regardless, I know that at least 85% of the sound coming out of my bell is my responsibility, not the horn's. It's taken me 20 years to figure that out.

If I ever "settle down" with a particular group, I'll probably own fewer tubas, well suited to my playing situation. "Ferraris" if you will. But my "Toyotas" serve nicely for now.

AND... for the many youths who run out and own a 6/4 to be a part of their gigging life... be careful. Having too big a horn (i.e. unless you play regularly with a powerful concert band or a 90-piece orchestra) can get you in trouble, even a YamaYork. I'm sure others can attest to this.

Happy Playin,

J.c.S.

[The Big Ben]

The 2 tubas were quite similar in most ways, as if 2 different high-end makers were given the same design objective and basic outline, and were then left to figure out the details.
Funny thing, that ........

Since then I've lifted the leadpipe off the bell on the Baer and it's made it an even better tuba

Handmade tubas like these always have differences from instrument to instrument, but a good Nirschl, a good Baer or a good YamaYork are each wonderful in their own way.

At SEATEC this year, Chris Olka played his YY along side an attendee's Nirschl. Both horns sounded very, very good. Different but good. Chris preferred the sound of the YY as you might imagine because, if not, he'd be playing the Nirschl. The owner of the Nirschl was quite pleased with his choice and has no intention of changing to a different horn.

As Cambrook said: They were each wonderful in their own way.

[Tom]

BTW, I don't agree with the comments about the YY being not available to mere mortals etc - I could have bought one if I wanted to pay the price, and I'm far from the top of the list of famous players.
You think they're expensive in the USA, you should have seen what Yamaha Australia had for the list price!!

Cheers,

Cam

Well, you live in Australia and have a gig, so you don't qualify as "general public" to me, and apparently Yamaha feels the same way. Since you're approved, maybe you should go into business exporting Yamaha Yorks to folks in the U.S. that aren't on the "list."

My earlier post speaking to the availability of the horn only applies to what I know is the case in the United States, and I really cannot speak to the policies outside of the U.S. as I have no experience there.

[pigman]

The YY is a 1% tuba. It contains that edge of difference that few will appreciate or need/want. Other tubas in this class may be the Nirschl York, the 6450/2, the newest handmade HB York, and one or two other tubas.

BUNK

[tbn.al]

I am beginning to think that Mr. pigman is a ficticious product of another poster's humor designed to jerk our collective chains. How else could someone be so generally offensive so much of the time. If that is the case, then thank you Mr. pigman for injecting some humor into what has been otherwise a dull and boring day.

[Toobist]

Answer1 about 10 minutes but all I needed was 2
** Jake never belived the yorks were perfect. They worked for him. Not to detract from his great playing, But Better players made beuitiful music on worse horns . Way worse horns.
Answer #1 Im not old or grumpy
Answer #2 I made a living playing
Answer #3 I made a living playing a horn I was allowed to buy
Answer #4 The Swine flu shot is poison

Bugger a company that has the nerve to
A) sell a horn for that much money
B) Pass judgement on any player
C) if it weren't for the serious amature Yam would be king of toilet seats or electric pianos

Its not the horn is the player

Try playing Blue bells on one of Arthur Pryors trombones.
It aint the horn

Dude...
It's my "opinion" you should take your head outta yer ***. Perhaps during your proof-reading of your posts, you ought to make sure you haven't typed anything that might be embarrassing to you in the future - like when you've thought about it after a while. I miss James. I love how Yamaha is the villain for producing an instrument most of us either can't afford or will never have a real use for. Sheesh. SHAME on Honda if they ever produce a sports car (http://thegarageblog.com/garage/the-ax- ... acura-nsx/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank). How DARE that Honda judge me and tell me I'm a bad driver by producing that car! Waaaaaaaahhhhhhaaaaah!

[Uncle Buck]

I miss James.

Are you sure he isn't RIGHT HERE? In this thread?

[Donn]

$30000 tuba? Someone's been spending too much time with violin players.

[bort]

I think they should charge $50,000.

I don't think Yamaha really *wants* to make these, but they know they have to in order to have their tubas played in big pieces in big symphonies. Yes, there are lots of pros who like their Yamaha F tubas, and surely some pros who like the Yamaha Bb or C tubas -- but there aren't many I know of in use in major symphonies (though that's not to say they don't exist). Yamaha wants to "get their name out there" and be seen and make a buzz among tuba geeks. Buzz buzz buzz...

[pigman]

Dude...
It's my "opinion" you should take your head outta yer ***. Perhaps during your proof-reading of your posts, you ought to make sure you haven't typed anything that might be embarrassing to you in the future - like when you've thought about it after a while. I miss James. I love how Yamaha is the villain for producing an instrument most of us either can't afford or will never have a real use for. Sheesh. SHAME on Honda if they ever produce a sports car (http://thegarageblog.com/garage/the-ax-" target="_blank" target="_blank ... acura-nsx/" target="_blank" target="_blank). How DARE that Honda judge me and tell me I'm a bad driver by producing that car! Waaaaaaaahhhhhhaaaaah!

?

Im real Im not ashamed of anything I type. Who is James?
Honda???
My point is that That Yamaha is no holy grail. Its insulting to me personaly that they have the nerve to exclude any player. The reason they go through the trouble of making a horn.
like this is so school kids and schools buy their rental junk. Thats an industry fact. Just dont tell me im not good enough or famous enough or white enough. GET IT.


Forget my typing skills . I hunt and peck and have trouble spelling my own name twice in a row. so what.

Any other trashing of me will have to wait. I'm off to Frankfurt to Messe. Ill try to post some pictures of whats new... If Im allowed to try them > HAAAAA!!!!

[Toobist]

Is there an emoticon depicting someone washing his hands of something? If so, post below.

[TexTuba]

Before this gets locked...

I can't believe y'all got taken in by a troll.

[tbn.al]

Before this gets locked...

I can't believe y'all got taken in by a troll.

Did we? Maybe we were just too amused to leave him alone. It was pretty entertaining.

[Ken Herrick]

Hi All, does anyone know the best way to go about tracking down a Yamaha York? A name or something more specific than just the company would be a great help.

Thanks in advance,

S.G.F.

I think it might be time for the TNFJ to come back in and award the prize for "The most innocuous post which caused the most heated debate of the year" to the OP of this thread.

If one picks through the ashes of various replies one can find several bits of fact and some "truths". It is a bit of a shame that things get so viciously personal.

Maybe the OP just wanted to see one and have a quick try so he could form some opinion as to the quality of the instrument.

As for Jake and the Yorks; yes, they worked for him, he played very well on them (as well as many other instruments I heard him play) and they (especially No 1) were a part of the "Jacobs sound" which was in turn a part of the "CSO sound". At one time, another famous player, from Boston, named Chester, who had a different sound and played in an orchestra with a different sound to the CSO described the York as "an old man's horn".

Many players around the world have tried to emulate Jake's sound - with varying degrees of success. For many a "duplicate" instrument would be considered an absolute necessity for one to do so, and are willing and able to pay the price for the closest available copy. It is their right/privilege to do so and the maker(s) of such instruments have the right to charge whatever price they want and to limit availability of such instruments to those they feel will best present their product.

There are many who would argue against the "big" sounds of some of todays orchestras and it at times seems there has been some pointless contest to see which brass section can do the best job of sending the rest of the orchestra deaf at the expense of musicality.

I often wonder why so many young players become obsessed with shaking the walls when all they are really doing is making a lot of horrendous noise with instruments they can not manage. Oh yes, have a 6/4 CC for that orchestra job they will never get and while they are at it buy an F so they can manage an instrument well enough to play a "solo" - poorly.

I had the "privilege' of regularly playing on the first Yamaha CC - a prototype cut BBb at Shilkes in 1970. I didn't esecially like it and for some years regarded yamaha tubas as what they were originally intended - reasonable priced student instruments. I think it fair to say yamaha has come a long way since then.

I remember when Jake was preparing the Vaughn Williams for performance on a pops concert with Morton Gould conducting. At the time he also had the smaller York which Ron Bishop and, later, others have owned. Jake admitted it was "less work" and I and others, including Bud Herseth agreed that that he sounded "better" on it. in the end though the BIG York produced the "Jake" sound so that is what he used. I've always felt it would have been better to use the smaller instrument.

If I had $35,000 to spend on one or more tubas right now i doubt that a 6/4 York copy would be the pick, namely because unless I was playing a gig such as CSO I wouldn't need it and I doubt many others here would either. BUT, if that is what you want - go for it.

[TexTuba]

Before this gets locked...

I can't believe y'all got taken in by a troll.

Did we? Maybe we were just too amused to leave him alone. It was pretty entertaining.

Maybe not YOU, but some DID.