How do you make a euphonium sound bassoonish

[Tom Beck II]

At present we have no bassoon player to play woodwind ensemble music and are using a good, available euphonium player to cover the part in some ensembles currently being worked on and considered for performances. She is using a "Stonelined" straight mute which, while it does lessen the mellowness, doesn't come as close as we hoped it would to a bassoon texture.
Has anyone found a better way, we can't afford to pay expenses to get a bassoon player here, to transform a euphonium sound?
Tom

[Bob Kolada]

Try using a shallower mp as well as the mute to cut down on the mellowness. Or, just enjoy it as it is.

[termite]

G'day Tom

I wont make any suggestions about sound but I'll offer a couple of thoughts about approaching woodwind music on a brass instrument.

Rather than trying to imitate the bassoon I think it's more about playing the lines in a way that work with the rest of the ensemble. Lower brass players tend to ram the note through and put up a wall of sound that nothing else can get through - (this is nothing to do with volume).
In this situation you need to "float" the music across the room and be transparent so that the other sounds can get through and interact with the euphonium sound. More than ever the player needs to tune in to the interaction between their part and what's going on around them - they need to get a feel for the harmony formed by their note and the notes around them.

When you say wind ensemble do you mean stuff like the Mozart serenade's for winds or do you mean an Eastman style wind ensemble?

In the case of the former your euphonium player would really need to study the way woodwind players play classical music. When playing something like a descending major scale in either quavers or semiquavers (eighths or sixteenths) most brass players would hit the first of each group of four notes and make the whole thing sound like a military march. If you listen to the best woodwind players play eighteenth century music they will slightly soften the first of each group but hold it a tiny bit longer to give it it's first of the group emphasis. The first note of a descending run seems to grow out of thin air - you almost can't tell where it starts. And it doesn't sound like a "run" - a simple scale passage will sound very melodic - every note will be leading to or coming from another note and every note will form a harmony with what's around it and find it's place in the scale. The effect should be exquisite, not flashy or showy.

Your euphonium player may find that they start to play slower melodic passages like a French horn. For the faster bits they might get a lot from listening to the way every instrument in the ensemble plays, not just the bassoon. The clarinet and flute may be a better model than the bassoon or oboe in this situation.

Sorry this is a bit of a rave. I studied clarinet for five years when I was younger with one of the best clarinet players Australia has ever seen and really had this stuff pounded into me. (Then gave it all up for twenty years).

Regards

Gerard (Former student clarinettist and current amateur tuba player in Melbourne, Australia)

[averagejoe]

I'm surprised that there haven't been any jokes yet.

[Bob Kolada]

http://www.youtube.com/user/ENEMMENE

[djwesp]

This sounds like a great question for Ms. Jamie Lipton.

She sometimes is on the board, and is easy to get a hold of offline.

I do think she gave a recital/lecture program (maybe a series) about the bassoon and euphonium. Using them together, using them in place of each other, etc.

She gave a fun little program on this similar topic at the Midwest Regional Tuba Euphonium Conference in Manhattan, Kansas last year.

[Mark Horne]

I would think that a true baritone would get you a little closer. The sound is a little more focused and not as "full" and "round" as a euph. There may be issues being fully chromatic around the pedal Bb, but I know 4-valve variants exist.

[imperialbari]

If the bassoon parts are not too technically demanding lightly played medium or small bore trombones may provide even more clarity.

Klaus

[Rick F]

I'm surprised that there haven't been any jokes yet.

How about maybe propping open the spit valve and play?

[David Richoux]

How about getting a large Bassoon or Contra-Bassoon reed-set and fitting it to the mouthpiece receiver? It has been done before

(see this Sarrusophone experiment video)

[J.c. Sherman]

To my mind, I've often thought that Baroque bassoon had a timbre more similar to a modern euphonium than the contemporary "fagott". In the couple times I've used a euph for bassoon parts, I've just used my Wick straight mute and it balances just fine.

J.c.S.

[peter birch]

you know, we all play cello music, vocal music piano music as well as bassoon music, the issue, I think is that of balancing a brass instrument in a string or woodwind section, a euphonium will always sound like a ephonium, but you can listen and blend it in with other instruments, and recalibrate your dynamics to the ensemble.

[tclements]

Try a cardboard mute.....

[Eric B]

Dr. Peter Schickile, AKA PDQ Bach, invented the tromboon by connected a bocal and bassoon read the the mp receiver

[tubaguy9]

surround euphonium with wood, and then place in wood box. Douse with lighter fluid. Light match. Use on box. Listen.

[tubaguy9]

Last of all, when flames are done, pull euphonium out of ashes, chem clean, and replace felts. And play a happy song because your instrument was not destroyed.

[Tom Beck II]

Thanks for all your comments and firstly I should have realized, that unless you have experienced residing on a relatively isolated location where you can't just get in a car and locate what you need in a relatively short time, that my true request for honest information would primarily bring jest, and secondly, for those who did offer genuine thoughts, I am torn between a cup mute or a metal, Wick, type straight mute. Contrary to popular opinion, we have utilized listening and attempting to blend as best we can with flute, oboe and clarinet and felt there still is a need to try and get, using modest means to alter what we have at hand, a less enveloping sound. Thanks again, it'll be solved.
Tom

[imperialbari]

If you are taking the mute road, you certainly should consider the Ion Balu euph mute. It doesn’t have the sleazy lounge sound of cup mutes, and it hasn’t the bite of a metal mute, but it has a very high blend factor without ruining the playability of your instrument. Just takes off some fat.

Klaus

[b.williams]

You don't. A euphonium can blend in just like a french horn can. Above all play musically.The range of a bassoon is perfect for a 3+1 compensating euphonium.