Cerveny 481-4-0 and 483-4-0 BBb

[Wu299]

Hello,

first of all, this is my first post here on these forums, so expect me to give you quite a few signs im a newbie, please either ignore them, or point them out, so I can get rid of them

I´m looking for a BBb tuba that fits my money situation. Ah well, it´s really hard to do, either I get a very old Miraphone in worse shape I also need to find/catch first or I can get a new Cerveny tuba (and since Im from Czech republic, few problems that can be connected with it go aside).
From Cerveny´s 481-4-0 and 483-4-0 models fit my money situation, however I´m unsure about their quality.

Do you have any experience with these tubas? I´m not a professional tubist, not even close, I´m bad/lower intermediate player. However, since I started playing in a band, an orchestra and a brass quintet, it feels annoying to play a really bad instrument they have here. I had tried Cerveny once, and found that it not only has much nicer tone, but it also is much more comfortable for playing. And once again, I do not own any tuba myself, its all borrowed...

Thanks for any advice.

[The Big Ben]

Welcome to TubeNet! There is a lot of information here and people who try to answer questions.

Where in the world are you located? If you are in the Czech Republic, you might easily find a dealer where you can play either of these horns. If you are in the USA, there might be a dealer stocking a variety of these instruments somewhat near by. You could take someone with you who is more knowledgable than you (your teacher, orchestra director, friend who plays) to listen to you and help you try them out.

Where are you?

Jeff

[Wu299]

I´m in Czech republic...

[The Big Ben]

Here's a link to a website for a variety of horns, including Cerveny:

http://cerveny.eu/tuben/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

This dealer is in Austria. There is a section there in your native language so you might be able to get the name of a dealer very close to you from there.

European geography is sometimes a little confusing for me. Over there "in another country" may be less than a few hundred miles. Over here, it could be a few thousand...

Jeff "Living at the NW tip, 100 miles from Canada but 1500 miles from Mexico" Benedict

[sailn2ba]

I have 2 Cervenys and I love them. One is a 681-4R (labelled Amati Kraslice) and the other is a 683-5R. They both have good tone and intonation. The 481 that you mention has the measurements of my 681.
Since they have been made in what is now the Czech Republic for a long time, there might be some used ones available. Test-play the horn you're planning to buy before you buy it. Also, if you can, take a tuner and another tuba player with you.

Uh-oh! There's an error above. I meant 681 and 686. . . not 683. The 681 and 686 have the same dimensions and wrap. The 683 and 483 have the same bore as the others, but uses Cerveny/Amati's compact "piggy" wrap.

[bort]

Old Cerveny's were inconsistent. Some were fantastic, some were poor, but most were pretty good. People tend to remember bad things more than good though.

New Cerveny's are more consistent and are great tubas. My Cerveny F can't be more than a few years old, and it is an outstanding tuba. Very well made and plays and sounds great. It's got that "thin" Cerveny metal, but whatever, just don't bang it around.

[Wu299]

Thanks for help.

I guess I will just go to first music shop having it (will ask my teacher) and try it out some day. If anyone wants to say something more, I would be happy!

To say more about me, I´m 16 years old tuba, bass guitar and upright bass player. A very weird person for sure. My tuba teacher is in fact trumpet player and teacher, but its consulted with a profesor from conservatory and I trust him. There aren´t many teachers specialized at one or two instruments only, anyways (dont really know how it is in USA or other countries you are from); most of them are really good and nice people and in my opinion it´s better to have people like that, who give you inspiration and somehow they make you like the instrument, than having people who are a very good specialized players ... you can´t even talk with.

I play tuba for second year (I know it´s not really long time...), but these days I play very often on different places (gigs with polkas/waltzes, songs in churches, ...) and I decided I really want to have my own instrument I can love and care about, than having battered Amati tuba I have borrowed, that is pretty hard to play and the sound is bad (that´s my mistake, but when I played Cerveny, it was just ... comparing 1 and 100). What is your opinion here?

I don´t even have my own mouthpiece, do you have any suggestions for which I should look for?

[sailn2ba]

It's great that you're getting a lot of playing experience. . . and it sounds like you really do need your own horn. . . . and mouthpiece!
I use a Conn Helleberg on my 681 and a Laskey 30H on the 683. I believe that the Laskey design is based on the Helleberg. My "pivot" mpc, the one I go back to when comparing mpcs, is a Bach 18. The Bach 18 is a standard, and I can play well and comfortably with it.
However, if the mpc you're using is good, and if you have total access to it, you should probably choose a horn before buying a mouthpiece. My 681 (like the 481?) has an American receiver and my 683 has the new, larger diameter European receiver. The difference in receiver diameter, in fact, is why I use different mpcs on each horn. They CAN be used on each other, but the Conn goes very far into the 683 receiver and I'm concerned that the taper doesn't match.
Your teacher sounds like a real asset to the profession. My guess is that his advice during the process would be valuable.
Let us know what happens!

[sailn2ba]

BTW, It's not uncommon for bassists to double on string and brass. It's a good combination. However, you'll need a big vehicle and a lot of space to line them up if you play them on the same gig!

[Wu299]

Anyways, I also wanted to ask everyone who has both Miraphone and Cerveny to compare them... Is Cerveny reaching similar line of quality?

As far as I know the differences between 681 and 481 models are some little features, like silver valve caps and so on, or is it more?
And between 481 and 483 - 483 is just shorter (possibly 3/4)?

Thanks for everyone´s help here.

[The Big Ben]

Anyways, I also wanted to ask everyone who has both Miraphone and Cerveny to compare them... Is Cerveny reaching similar line of quality?

Cerveny's reputation for consistancy has improved over the last ten years or so. A common complaint about Cerveny is that the metal seems to dent easier than others.

[sailn2ba]

Well, I have an old (1960s, perhaps, no SN on it) Miraphone 185 BBb, with plain brass slides and no no bell wreath. Its weight and brass gauge appear to be similar to that of the 681. Also, I understand that Tuba Exchange gets some of their TE model Miraphones made with a lighter gauge brass, and that is said to result in more "resonance". It would appear that both Miraphone and Cerveny produce tubas of the same dimensions and wrap with slightly different materials (brass gauge, nickle-silver, etc.) engravings, etc. . . and the price varies accordingly.
All that said, you should play whatever horn you buy before you buy it. I would guess that Cerveny should have a price advantage on new horns in the CZ R.

[Wu299]

Update: I am going to get 483-4-0. I will report you how fine it plays when I get it .

Probably next week Im going to play it.

[iiipopes]

BTW, It's not uncommon for bassists to double on string and brass. It's a good combination. However, you'll need a big vehicle and a lot of space to line them up if you play them on the same gig!

Hey! I resemble that remark! Anyway, yes, let us know about your new tuba when you get it.

[imperialbari]

Update: I am going to get 483-4-0. I will report you how fine it plays when I get it .

Probably next week Im going to play it.

Where are you in Czechia?

How close is a music shop selling tubas?

What will the 483 cost you?

Klaus (not Václav)

[Wu299]

I will tell it all when I get it, ok? Gonna be next week, hopefully.

[Wu299]

Hello guys, good news!

I brought my 483 home before few hours. It plays fantasticaly. Cost was about 3100$.

Ive been told that I should play long notes mainly for about two months and that I should also clear it inside.

If there is anything youd like to ask or suggest, please do so!

[The Big Ben]

I hope that's a good horn for you. The combination of tuba, string and electric bass will give you more opportunities to play. In the years before the electric bass (1950 and older), the tuba was a common element of the jazz band. A string bass has no "knob" that can be turned up to provide more volume where the tuba can easily be played louder.

Long tones are always good. Concentrating on playing in tune is always essential and, if you don't already have a tuner/metronome, you should get one to help you.

Have fun! New and shiny things are always good!

[jonesbrass]

Hello guys, good news!

I brought my 483 home before few hours. It plays fantasticaly. Cost was about 3100$.

Ive been told that I should play long notes mainly for about two months and that I should also clear it inside.

If there is anything youd like to ask or suggest, please do so!

Congratulations! I would definitely clean it often when new. Get some of the residue from manufacture out of it - especially in the valves.
My first tuba was a Cerveny 681 BBb, and I've been a fan ever since. I bought that horn in 1990, and there were a few manufacturing shortcomings on that horn. Not terrible, but noticeable. The Baby Arion F I bought a few years ago, however, is a very fine horn. Easily comparable, IMO, to one of the German horns in quality. And it plays great. I believe Cerveny is very well aware of the competition from asia and south america in the "budget" range of instrument, and has really stepped up the quality control.

[sailn2ba]

Congratulations!! It's great to hear that you got a horn to love. I'm curious as to what mouthpiece you're using.
I got a 686-5R about a year ago didn't notice anything coming out when I cleaned it. However, it had already been prepped by Matt Walters at Dillon's. Any reasonable maintenance on a new horn is worth the trouble.

BobF
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Mira 185-3R, Cerv 681-4R, Cerv 686-5R