so.. I got a trombone.

[ThomasDodd]

Here's something that almost seems to be intentionally baffling:

http://24.35.7.208/~jc/neobop/jpg/slidepositions.jpg

I like that one.

Illustrates my previous point. Look at the different locations fopr 2nd and 3rd positons.(#2 and #1 valve) You be out of tune if you always use the same spot, which is what valves do.

[MartyNeilan]

Here is an very interesting page on the topic. It may or may not help.
http://fcweb.fcasd.edu/~Dan_Traugh/slidepositions.htm
You may also be better off initially learning positions by ear (or tuner at first, if you absolutely need to) on your particular horn. Some trombones have "short bells" or "long bells" and the positions will not necessarily line up in the same spot relative to the bell, it varies considerably by brand and model. Don't get locked into an "absolute position" for all the notes - 5th may be slightly different for F# than it is for C# on the same horn, for example.
ULTIMATELY, at your age you are best off learning ONE or TWO instruments WELL so you can actually develop your musical potential instead of just getting by on a dozen. Mearly learning a lot of button pushing and slide pulling will do nothing to develop musicianship.

P.S. You are getting a lot of help here. If we really hated you we would not bother trying to assist you. Quit whining.

[MaryAnn]

I always equate slide positions to violin left hand positions....not quite as complex but in the same general ballpark. On violin, the teacher will show you basically where to put your hand and fingers. It changes with each position because as you move up the neck the notes get closer together. There are also a lot of different places to play many notes, with some notes having more possible places than others. If your teacher is good, s/he teaches you how to correct your intonation via double stops with adjacent strings.

Now, a tbone doesn't have adjacent strings, so you would be better off learning your slide positions by ear with a drone. I would assume that the positions aren't "locked" on a trombone because of variations in the in-tune-ness of the harmonic series, plus the usual placement of whatever pitch you're playing, in the chord. Some people need more rules than others, to find where a slide needs to be, to be in tune with what is going on around you. Some of just just listen and adjust, but I guess that takes some background.

I've only messed with a trombone a couple of times, but that was how it appeared to me to work. It kills my left hand so bad to hold it up that I doubt I'll ever put a lot of time in on it. Even the cornet is making my left hand turn into a cramped-up claw.

MA, who thinks tbone would be a lot of fun in bluegrass because of the slide possibilities

[ThomasDodd]

but seriously, if you're going to help me and complain.. why do it? i'll help somebody[if they're not disrespect] in most ways i can. and if its tough, i wont complain about it. but if you dislike me, or complain about helping a kid trying to have fun with instruments, and trying to become a

If you feeling get hurt that easily, it's a good thing you were not around for the Politics section earlier.

I do wish Sean had kept the archives available to browse...

[Matt G]

When I ask someone for help, I thank them. Any more than that is unneccessary. If they complain about helping, that's on them. If you got what you were looking for, a thank you is a nice way to show appreciation.

and did i not thank them? please tell me i didnt so i can prove you wrong.

My dad can beat up your dad!

[TubaRay]

All this hoopla raises the question as to whether one was born obnoxious, or have they worked extremely hard to perfect that quality.

For my part, I have been posting on TubeNet for about three years, now. From my experience, when one asks for information, they will often receive MORE than they really wanted in the first place. It seems quite simple to just sort through it all and find what is useful. I don't believe it is necessary to try to insult those who are simply responding to the request. Most folks will show some civility and gratitude. Sure, anything you post is done so with the risk of being "flamed." I know I have been. The majority of the folks on TubeNet are decent folks, however, people one could be happy to call "friend." To me it is disappointing to hear from those who simply don't care to fit in. Sometimes it is not necessary to share ALL of one's feelings with everyone else. If I were to do this, I might have a few comments about young people which not everyone would appreciate.

[ThomasDodd]

im tired of bloke's constant bickering about little stuff. its annoying. a older man bickering... come on?

But that's bloke(decided not to use his name, for fear of confusing you).
Deal with it. We all do.
Quite often it's funny, if you can get past the brubt ness.
We need the curmudgon <sp?> around to keep us in check.

Something you'll learn in time I guess.

It not nice to come in, and start dissing long time members. Oh, and rember this group started a long time ago. Well before March 2004.

[Matt G]

I have sent an email or private message to "Bloke" in the past.

He has always been courteous and forthcoming with information. I might not see eye to eye with all of his ideas, but he is speaking from his own reference and life experience, not vicarious information.

The problem is when someone comes on the board and is unable to articulate clearly a question for whatever reason (age, experience, language barrier, netiquitte etc.) that they will get a lot of information and that allows the parameters for discussion to be set so loosely that the topic will drift offcourse quickly.

I have been posting on this board since it was hosted at IU (1995 or 1996ish). I myself have learned a lot of things about how discussions evolved. Things I have learned:

-Subject of the post must pertain directly to the post content.
-Questions must be specific and easily understood.
-For postings to be regarded in the best manner you should strive to use proper spelling and grammar. This isn't to be picky, it is just the structure of the English Language. You wouldn't want to try to play music with no clef and only four lines.
-Be responsible for your post. Check on it often and thank those who have answered your questions publicly. If it has drifted off topic, rephrase your question or add more specifics. This helps you in your quest for knowledge and insults nobody.
-Flaming doesn't work.
-Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one, and they all potentially stink.
-You must develop your own poop-filter.
-There is always a better performer than you at anything. Tuba, Math, Cartwheels, NosePicking, etc. They might well be lurking at any time.
-Insults you fling at people are worthless. You have just wasted your time typing them and they probably knew of your opinion already.
-Free advice is worth exactly what it costs.
-There is always someone else who has been in your shoes before.
-Beware of what you say. Again, lots of folks lurk these pages.
-Don't substitute this forum for real human interaction. Act/Speak/Type in here like you would interact with these people in reality. In other words, don't grow "cyber-cojones".

[ThomasDodd]

On a side note, what's the "i teh tuba" stuff mean?

Judging from other posts, "teh" is supposed to be "the". I do it a lot, but actually take the time to fix it(usually ). Common for us poor typists to get the letters in the wrong order. I do it witt my name (Thoams) all the time (80%+) and have to constantly fix it.

Not using the "shift" key is just general lazyness, but common online nowdays.

[MartyNeilan]

My dad can beat up your dad!

Yeah, well my kid can beat up your kid!
<=====


lol Matt!!

[ThomasDodd]

I, on the other hand, have tried hard to become a horse's ***, regardless of political affiliation.

Ditto

[Rick Denney]

...but seriously, if you're going to help me and complain.. why do it?

Several reasons:

1. You might get the point of the complaint and make a decision to change something you are doing (or not, but at least with knowledge of what some others think).

2. We enjoy amusing ourselves with a little good-natured ribbing, especially if it is just a bit witty.

3. We want to see if the new guy can take a little good-natured ribbing.

Rick "hoping you can take a little good-natured ribbing" Denney

[Doug@GT]

That grumpy young teenager didn't have a big plastic box with a fan back then to communicate with people that were 30 or so years different in age.

There's your problem. Plastic just doesn't cut it. Aluminum boxes are the way to go now

On another aside--I actually got to use microfiche the other day...our library was missing a few hard copies of the FCC Record. Good times.

[Mudman]

The grumpy young teenager...well, technically a 12-year-old...got a grumpy 7-day-a-week newspaper route, used the money for grumpy classic guitar lessons, the best grumpy guitar he could afford, and some Charlie Byrd recordings (no sheet music available...' had to "steal" the charts off the records).

Blokoid, now I know why we get along so well--at about the same age I tricked my parents into letting me take a paper route. I told them that another kid was going to be the manager and I would just help out. He told his folks the same thing.

When I was saving up for a Laser (olympic-class sailboat) in Vancouver, I had three paper routes at one time and would sub for other carriers on weekends. My stack of thick weekend papers (that we had to stuff with flyers) was taller than me, and I was tall!

Musically, I am the least of the talented of my friends, even today. Learned trombone by playing nights with Canadian military bands and focused on practicing jazz drumming. To learn drums I would trade in used records for other used records until I had listened to everything I could get my hands on. I would practice for hours and am thankful my parents didn't ever tell me to be quiet.

If only I had the internet back then! On the other hand, easy access to information probably would have taken away the desire to do something worthwhile. Tubenet is a great resource, but I could be practicing NOW instead of chatting

I must say, however, that scouring the TubeNet archives gave me a huge jump in picking up the tuba as a professional double in a short amount of time.

Mudd

[MartyNeilan]

The Internet can be a major time waster. The majority of time I spend online is late at night when I can't make noise and have to stay up with my infant daughter (who does make noise).
However, I have recently found myself spending way too much time online during the day this Christmas break when I am not touring. It will be interesting to see how much time I spend during my several week recovery period after my upcoming surgery when I can't play brass instruments at all.

FWIW, I have learned a lot during the seven or so years I have browsed TubeNet, and I hope I have contributed some knowledge, opinions, humor, and started some interesting discussions.

[Rick Denney]

Playing professionally? It won't happen "someday". Stuff like that happens NOW.

Had the Internet been available when I was in high school, and had my parents been foolish enough to give me unrestricted access to it, I'd have never practiced tuba, I'd have never read the hundreds of books I did read, I'd have never spent hours and days making and presenting photographs, and I'd have never spent the hours I spent learning to design and make things. Those were the things I did because it was the only path to learning stuff, and that was the only imperative I can think of that was actually built into my genes. The Internet is the path of least resistance to learning. It's a great benefit to those of us who have paid some dues, but it's too easy for those who haven't.

This story explains: When I was in architecture school (I switched to engineering as a senior in college because architecture wouldn't let me design stuff that could actually be built), the photography classes required the use of fully manual cameras. That was easy in those days--college students couldn't afford anything better. Last I checked, most photography schools still require it (at least in the beginner classes), even though finding a fully manual camera usually requires digging through the junk pile at the local camera store, or buying something from the former Second World. Why would they do that? Simple: If you know how to do it the hard way, you won't be a slave to doing it the easy way, or to merely watching other people do it.

Rick "in some things, not content to be a specatator" Denney

[ThomasDodd]

photography classes required the use of fully manual cameras. That was easy in those days--college students couldn't afford anything better. Last I checked, most photography schools still require it (at least in the beginner classes), even though finding a fully manual camera usually requires digging through the junk pile at the local camera store, or buying something from the former Second World. Why would they do that? Simple: If you know how to do it the hard way, you won't be a slave to doing it the easy way, or to merely watching other people do it.

The school here still requires manual cameras, teach B&W first, including developing and printing, color you also have to hand develop and print most of the semester. Only after proving you can do it by hand, can you use the automated systems. Lot's of high end cameras allow manual control, but have automatic setting too. So the school uses K-1000's so you cannot cheat.

One of the things I like about my digital camera is that it allows full apeture and shutter control, pluse manual focus. Not many of those are affordable, but they exist if you're willing to spend the money. I've got a nice 120/220 twin reflex camera too. Now if only I could find a local source for film and processing

[ThomasDodd]

ah pooey on you all!

You should think your public persona.

Perhaps you should have you father read you past messages and the responses they elicited, though he should be monitoring the board already give your age.

Maybe he can explain things in a way you'll comprehend.

[TubaRay]

"ah pooey on you all!"

"argueing online is like running in the special olympics.. even if you win, you're still retarded."

For some, posting online is akin to the adage: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." This may not be an exact quote, but it still speaks to the situation. We all know the source of the above quotes. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[Matt G]

argueing online is like boxing.. even if you win, you come out a little more retarded.

there. its the same thing, but hating on boxors. now you goign to get pissed over hating on boxors? fine. i really dont care. but it's just a metaphor kind of thing. and retards/special olympics was the orginial one.

jeez, yall thank i get emotional. i have some semi-retarded friends. and they call me retarded, and i call them retarded. its friendly joking around. so sorry if i hurt some people on the retarded subject, i just treat them like my friend.

You, sir, have not learned anything. So now instead of insulting one group of folks you now insult two. BTW, it is boxers. I've got a website for you that can get you on your way:

http://www.m-w.com/home.htm

Some of us know you meant no particular harm. However, there are many folks who make take things a totally different way due to life experiences.

I've got a metaphor you can use:

Wrestling with folk online (like bloke) is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. All you do is get dirty and you figure out that the pig simply enjoys it.

p.s. Your shift key is lonely.