M&M CC Sousaphone...

[Dylan King]

How cool is this?



Has anyone played it?

[The Big Ben]

Will be interesting to see how many of these M&M moves....

Is there a market for CC sousaphones? HS marching bands will have guys who play BBb tuba and most college marching bands are stocked with non-tuba majors who came from HS playing a BBb instrument.

Time will tell...

[bort]

Ditto about 4 valves. A 3-valve CC tuba of any shape isn't of much interest to me.

If/when I ever need a sousaphone, I will run straight towards a solid old used Conn or King. It'd take an awful lot to convince me otherwise.

[MartyNeilan]

SMALL bore

[bort]

If we all keep giving feedback like this, they'll be perfect in 8 months... no?

[tubaforce]

Good morning! As a parent of an aspiring Tuba player, I have been spending an hour each school day at her middle school band rehearsal.At first it was a pain switching back and forth between CC and BBb fingerings! But after a couple weeks I realized all I had to do was to do it! after a couple months(I'm waiting for the construction industry to employ me)I even was able to play scales on My Eb, easily,too! That brings me to the point of CCvsBBb.What are the worst notes to tune on ANY Bb, 3-valve axe? 1-3 low concert"C"and low "B" 123!So now all you've done is shift those pitches up a step! No biggie,IMHO! Also, while 4th valve would be nice, it's really hard to notice(at least as I remember from drum corps and marching band) any discrepancies with the sun or the cold affecting pitch! As to the bore, aren't there some larger axes with only a .689" bore that speak wonderfully? As to the quality of the axes, I'm not sure how many folks have bought 'em from MM, or T.E.! Michael and Vince, et al, have been pushing the Jin-Bao folks to higher levels for a while now, and it's starting to show in the newer clones, but these are the same clones Jin-Bao, and Xuqui, have been making for years, so who knows if there is any tricle down from the newer models? Al.

[UDELBR]

The leadpipe and gooseneck are disasters waiting to happen. Waaaaay too long. And the machine seems to have a single, long, thin brace to keep it in place. This is a VERY flimsy design.

Silly. It's not meant for outdoors, but for recitals and orchestral work, where it won't come to any harm.

[iiipopes]

In this particular case, since you can't get to the 1st valve circuit easily with the left hand, the 4th valve would be more for intonation than for low range facility. After all, the dispersion of pitch rises geometrically as pitch lowers, so I have never understood why any BBb souzy would have a 4th valve to begin with, because such low notes just do not carry outdoors, and by pulling & setting 3 so that 2+3 is a hair flat, 1+3 is lippable if you don't have the 1st valve circuit converted to a usable slide.

That said, the minimum bore should be the King/Jupiter .687/.689, and the layout could be better, as discussed above.

OTOH, I personally prefer a 24 inch bell as being more maneuverable, and therefore less prone to damage, with just as much sonic presence. Yes, I can see where Ohio University would want as large a bell as possible to dot the "i" for visual effect, but 24 inches is fine for mere mortals such as myself.

[imperialbari]

This sousaphone might be the real thing for CC tuba players not wanting to master BBb fingerings also. Like with 4 valve Eb sousaphones it goes down to F#. I don’t remember seeing Sousa writing the tuba below G.

The sad facts are:

it will not suffice as contrabass in outdoor band concerts

the bore is very narrow - no real tuba with such bore would survive on the market

the wrapping does apply the well tried airpath through the valve block, which we see in King and Conn sousaphones

the overall look is much more like very bad sousaphones like those from Amati than it is like the good US made sousaphones

Klaus

[imperialbari]

Sousaphones made in Europe are next to all based on valve blocks designed for top action tubas.

With some Bessons the slides start out on the outer side which leads to a lot of tight knuckles. Most have the slide towards the player which calls for the 1st and 3rd slides being exchanged (aside from the angle being changed).

The old Bueschers still had the leadpipe entering the 1st piston casing after the detour around the block. This one has the leadpipe entering the 3rd piston casing.

This M&M looks like having the same main path as a BBb and it has the long leadpipe. It easily could be in BBb like bloke suggests, but maybe the main circle has been shrunk a bit.

Klaus

[sloan]

... The old Bueschers still had the leadpipe entering the 1st piston casing after the detour around the block. This one has the leadpipe entering the 3rd piston casing. ...

How the heck does that fingering system work? Same way?

The fingers don't care which direction the air is moving.

[tubamlb]

Hi Guys & Girls
Check out the M&M Web page The pictures of the BBb and the CC Sousas are there , 2 diferent instruments , The CC is a CC and the BBb is diferent

[sloan]

I'd by the C Sousaphone - because I don't know anyone stupid enough to buy my car.

[Bob Kolada]

Special C pitched instruments for C tuba players who "can't handle playing another pitch" is probably the lamest thing I have ever heard of in the low brass world.

-Players who almost certainly started on Bb, switched to C for whatever reason, and now can't play Bb sousa/euph/....? Keep in mind these are probably the same people who rag on Bb/... players for not wanting to play another pitch!
-Players who started on a C tuba? Almost non-existent, and if they were decent players at all they could get used to playing a horn one even step lower. The music most people play on sousas is generally not difficult.

I can understand people who started on and only ever played 1 key of tuba (and is happy with what they and their horn can do) not wanting to learn the other horns they don't know, but C players wussing out on the same thing they "hold over" players of other pitches of tubas is pathetic.
Pardon the lack of detailed thought on this; this is a subject that really ticks me off. People who play C are somehow exempt from retaining/learning/... other pitches of tuba? Bullllshit.



Bob"who regularly plays tenor Bb, F, Eb, C, and low Bb"Kolada"also, they're C and Bb tubas, they don't play 2 notes at a time; a tenor C tuba is called either that or a French C tuba"

[The Big Ben]

If that C sousaphone was ONLY $100...and you only HAD $100...and your car needed a new tire, would you buy the tire, or that C sousaphone ?

Hmmmm.... In that case, I'd buy a case of beer, a half dozen fried egg sandwiches and blow the rest on lottery tickets...

[iiipopes]

Dear sousaphone manufacturers,
I don't know about you guys, but I'm ready for a 5-valve sousaphone. I don't think I've ever played one that was perfectly in tune, and there is no way you can reach the slides. I might as well play it in CC so that I don't have to try to remember BBb fingerings after I have spent all summer getting used to CC fingerings. Since we're making design changes, let's go ahead and figure out a way to drop 10 pounds off of it without thinning out the metal... and maybe a model that sits on both shoulders so that I don't look like a hunchback after playing it for 10 years. And maybe for when I go to my masters degree, how about a bass sousaphone in F?

Thanks,
Disgruntled college tubist who is thankful to be done with marching band

-Actually, playing a souse for 10 seasons has made me a better musician... or maybe that was the hours of practice. Switching back and forth for three years made me a better musician...

No souzy is "perfectly" in tune. No tuba is "perfectly" in tune. No brass instrument is "perfectly" in tune. No 5-valve instrument will get you there, either. You'll just add more weight to carry around for no reason. That's why the player controls the embouchure and the instrument, and why I have the upper loop of the 1st valve on Conn and Conn-style valve blocks converted to a usable slide.

As far as weight, it's a matter of physics. You can have a modicum of mass so the horn has a good tone, or you can sacrifice weight for tone in the case of fiberglass or resin or plastic, or you can sacrifice weight for durability, as in the new Jupiter .689 souzys that are as thin as paper and dent if you look at them, or you can sacrifice weight for increased cost to where nobody can afford one, like the custom Yammy graphite souzys that were used at Disney.

[Dan Schultz]

Special C pitched instruments for C tuba players who "can't handle playing another pitch" is probably the lamest thing I have ever heard of in the low brass world.....

You would be surprised by the number of requests I get to build CC sousaphones from other components.

[Wyvern]

I think a CC sousaphone is a really good idea not because I cannot play BBb, but if one is playing a piece in concert on a CC tuba, then playing it on a BBb sousaphone for outside gig it causes mental confusion which is more likely to lead to errors (particularly with accidentals).

It is a shame the M&M offering is so small bore meaning it is unlikely to be of interest to the serious CC player.

Jonathan "who personally would be more interested in a large rotary CC helicon"

[kontrabass]

I might have bought this two years ago when I was primarily a CC player and looking at getting into sousaphone.
Instead I relearned BBb fingerings. I then found that keeping up BBb, CC and F at the same time was more trouble than it was worth, though, so I sold my CC and I'm back to playing BBb as my contrabass horn.

[tubainty]

[quote]Special C pitched instruments for C tuba players who "can't handle playing another pitch" is probably the lamest thing I have ever heard of in the low brass world.

-Players who almost certainly started on Bb, switched to C for whatever reason, and now can't play Bb sousa/euph/....? Keep in mind these are probably the same people who rag on Bb/... players for not wanting to play another pitch!
-Players who started on a C tuba? Almost non-existent, and if they were decent players at all they could get used to playing a horn one even step lower. The music most people play on sousas is generally not difficult.

I can understand people who started on and only ever played 1 key of tuba (and is happy with what they and their horn can do) not wanting to learn the other horns they don't know, but C players wussing out on the same thing they "hold over" players of other pitches of tubas is pathetic.
Pardon the lack of detailed thought on this; this is a subject that really ticks me off. People who play C are somehow exempt from retaining/learning/... other pitches of tuba? Bullllshit./[quote]


I think the problem that C players have with Bb tubas, and possibly with players of Bb tubas is not the fingerings themselves. From my personal experience in playing both a C tuba and a Bb souzy at the same time it just didn't make sense to play a horn in a key at had just spent a great deal of time teaching myself to not play in on music that was quite frankly poorly aranged with a bunch of people that really didn't care about music in general. I think my problem was with the whole idea of high school marching band.

Anyway, I don't know of any serious players who intend to become proffessional orchestral tubists in america (or already are) who use a BBb tuba as their contrabass horn. This may be because the horns are not to the same caliber of manufacture as C tubas, or it could be because BBb tubas have a distinct sound from CC tubas and the CC sound is more what orchestras and other high caliber groups are looking for. In my expirience in highschool tuba world I have on a rare occasion ever met a person playing on a Bb tuba that is more committed and more talented than the players I know using instruments in the key of C. I also never complain about switching keys of instruments, as I do it everyday when I play F. That was never the issue.

I have also noticed that playing in a section with other tubists who are playing in BBb, and than myself and others in the same section playing in CC, there were serious intonation problems. It always seemed to me that the player on the Bb tuba had to adjust quite a bit more than us on C tuba. It's always easier when everyon's horns in the same key. and C seems to be the key most serious tubists choose in this country.