Advice on 3/4 tubas and their weight!

[Pozzie]

I'm going to purchase a new 3/4 BBb tuba for gig with bands. I wish a tuba not too expensive (like Yamaha), not too small, but however light enough for my back (at the moment I play with YBB641 and it's too heavy to march!)!.

I would like a rotary horn or front action pistons...
The music shop in my zone has three tubas corresponding to my requirements: Jupiter 482, Jupiter 778 and Weril J680. From what's being said the Jupiter 482 is a good horn for a comparatively small amount of money, and I like the larger bore of 482.

Jupiter 482: bore .709" (18mm); bell 15" (381 mm)
Jupiter 778: bore .661" (16.8mm); bell 14.4" (366 mm)
Weril J680: bore .669" (17 mm); bell 14.5" (368 mm)

I'm thinking to opt for Jupiter, but before I would like to hear more opinions about these two tubas. Someone know the weight of these instruments?

[bort]

This is only 6.5 kg. Hornguys sells them, and it seems like they think pretty highly of them.

http://www.josef-lidl.com/tuba/lbb701.php" target="_blank

[Pozzie]

Thanks for answers...
Unfortunately I've not chance to try Cerveny or Josef Lidl tubas before buy them. I can only order through music shop, but not play to choose.
Instead I've chance to play Yamaha, Jupiter or Weril tubas before to make a purchase.
But I'm rejecting Yamahas because are too expensive for me. Jupiter and Weril horns cost less than 2000 euros. So I wish hear opinions of Jupiter and Weril owners.

[bill]

I have a Weirl J680. It is Silver and weighs @ 7.5 Kg. I weighed it by holding it while stepping on the scale; I do not know what the factory specified weight is. I have owned this horn for about 15 years, using it for some symphony playing and for students when they came to my home for lessons. It is a very nice horn, playing very well. It's intonation is quite good but somewhat mouthpiece sensitive. I get the best results with a Conn 2 or a Yamaha 65. I hope these facts help you to determine if this horn is for you. If I were in your situation, I would play all three of the horns you mention and select the one I think played the best, whatever "best" means to you.

[Mojo workin']

I'll second the vote for a Cerveny. 'Piggy' models are likely to be not as heavy and better playing horns than Weril or Jupiter. Find one used at the same price range of Jupiter or Weril new.

[hald]

I have back problems too. I own a Jupiter 482 and a Lidl CC. The Jupiter 482 is a very good tuba. I have a silver one and use it for community band. It is larger than most 3/4's but smaller than 4/4's. It is exceptionally comfortable to hold and play, compared to my other horns, and has really good response and intonation. My tuba community band mates play Cerveny, Conn, Miraphone, and Yamaha, all 4/4 size. The Jupiter holds it's own. I've seen the Jupiter on sale for $2600, and I would consider that a bargain. I love it's open wrap design. It's very free blowing and is very well made. The only drawback is you may need to install an additional water valve if occasionally doing the "twirl" is a problem; I seem to be very wet compared to my band mates, so it might not be an issue.
The Lidl is also a very good tuba, smaller and lighter than the 482. I use the CC for playing popular music without having to transpose (in my head). I haven't played the Bb version. The CC would work well in community band, except it's low range isn't quite as good as the Jupiter. We had only 1 piece of music in CB that the Lidl would have had trouble playing due to the low range. If size is the determining factor the Lidl is smaller, and it's case is only a little bigger than many euphonium cases. Both tubas have excellent playing characteristics and are easy to transport. I can happily recommend both.
-hald
Lidl 701CC
Jupiter 482
Jupiter 582
Yamaha 631S
Besson 3V comp with recording bell (1948)
Conn Eb (1957)

[bort]

Have you been to this site yet?

http://www.tubaforum.it/Lists/ForumVend ... lItems.htm" target="_blank

[David Richoux]

Have you been to this site yet?

http://www.tubaforum.it/Lists/ForumVend ... lItems.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

Something about that site won't let it be translated using the usual tools... so evidently only useful if you read Italian!

[TUbajohn20J]

Can't go wrong with a Conn 4J, 5J, or 12J

[bort]

Have you been to this site yet?

http://www.tubaforum.it/Lists/ForumVend ... lItems.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Something about that site won't let it be translated using the usual tools... so evidently only useful if you read Italian!

Very true... but he is in Rome!

[iiipopes]

Can't go wrong with a Conn 4J, 5J, or 12J

Yes, but make sure you use a good funnel mouthpiece with them, like a Conn Helleberg 120S. They thin out badly with bowl mouthpieces, like a Bach 18.

[tofu]

I played all the horns you mentioned as well as the Lidl BBb. Hands down the Lidl is superior. I bought the LIDL. The low range on my absolutely rocks and it sings in the upper register. I use a Rudy Meinl JT-1 mouthpiece in it. The build quality is superior to any of the horns you mentioned. I bought mine from Lee Stofer and he thought the rotors were the same as the ones in Miraphones. Mine are extremely quiet and quick. The horn is very ergonomic and unbelievably light AND very well balanced. It is easy to stand and play with and to transport. Even in it's hard case. It is like carrying a euph around and in fact that is how I transport it. Even with my carpal tunnel it is easy to play and transport. These are handbuilt horns and have a lovely sound. Intonation is very good except for middle C. Which is flat and an easy push on the first valve slide or played 1-3. All the slides are an easy reach. It can be played in a wider variety of groups then you might think for a horn of this size - if you play it within its limits. It is not going to have the presence of a big 4/4 or 5/4 horn nor the volume. It plays like a nice F tuba, but with an excellent/usable low range.

[Alex F]

Ditto to everything tofu said about the Lidl BBb. I also own one (courtesy of Lee Stofer). In the right hands, these can play like small 4/4 tubas. The problem for our OP though is that Lidl does not make many of these horns per year so they can be a bit hard to find, even in Europe.

BTW Mike, I still haven't found those keys for the hard case but keep on looking. Ther are around -- somewhere.

[Pozzie]

Thanks to all for advices!
Today I was in music shop and I asked for prices. This store sells Cerveny tubas too, but they are all too expensive (minimum €3000); it doesn't sell Josef Lidl tubas. There are other 3/4 BBflat like Amati, and there are Chinese or Korean horns but I don't like them.
So definitely, I'll buy Jupiter 482 OR Weril J680. Jupiter costs €2190 and Weril €1650.
I prefer Jupiter but there is a great difference in price (€540) and I don't know what choice is better. In the beginning my goal was don't go any higher than 2000 euros...
I'm really indecisive this time!
What's your opinion?

Have you been to this site yet?

http://www.tubaforum.it/Lists/ForumVend ... lItems.htm" target="_blank

Something about that site won't let it be translated using the usual tools... so evidently only useful if you read Italian!

Very true... but he is in Rome!

Yes, I'm Italian and I live in Rome! I read this italian tubaforum and I called the owner of silver Weril and he told me that it's like new, played just a month. But he sells for €1500. So, if my choice will are Weril, I think is better buy it new (only €150 difference)

[LoTone]

Hello,

I wonder if you did bought the Weril? If so, how do you like it?

I am considering to buy its cousin the J681.

Thanks.

[J.c. Sherman]

Assuming you were speaking of a BBb 3/4, I just tried an older 184 BBb Miraphone and it was excellent and very light. great little horn.

I just tried the little Jupiter 4 valve. I love the big BBb, and the little one plays nicely, but the sound is too... King 1140 for me... not very interesting. They could definitely make it a winner with a slightly different bell shape, IMO. I tried a prototype Jupiter 3/4 rotary BBb which was very nice that I hope they produce.

J.c.S.

[Arthur]

I have the Weril which I bought from Bloke about 8 or 9 years ago. I wanted something smaller for some quartet stuff I was doing and as a secondary function to be easy lug around for rehearsals for other groups. Considering the price I have been very happy with it although I will second the comments about mouthpiece sensitivity. For me it works well with Conn Helleberg 7B but that is just me.

My only gripe is the valve guides, I have an early model and they had some annoying plastic ones that are a pain to line up but I believe that they have fixed this.