"Ask your teacher..."

[The Jackson]

OK. I guess I'll stir the pot a bit. What if a young poster on this board, asks about equipment because
He (or she) has no private teacher ?

That's all fine and okay as long as the poster knows and understands that everyone has their own opinion and that information from posters on TubeNet is worth exactly what he paid for it. I think that applies to a whole lot of other things here on TubeNet, as well.

[Dean E]

I understand the points being made. However, assuming a trustworthy seller or advisor, not every buyer is driven by price or technology or the psychological satisfaction of a brand name.

I have bought used auction tubas after attempting to absorb lots of Tubenetters' comments about technical aspects. However, compiling masses of information is not for everyone. And I bought my Yamaha 822 F tuba based on a respected Tubenetter's opinion--not of the individual instrument--but of the horn's seller.

[The Jackson]

Bloke, I would say that it depends on why the student is asking around for that information. If I ask my teacher what tuba to buy with the intention, before asking, that I would buy whatever name came out of his mouth, I would definitely not be ready to ask my mom to buy me that instrument. Asking the same question, though, but with the goal in mind only to gather information and invite friendly suggestions would be one of the very first things I would do.

With something as important and expensive as a tuba, I would, to be quite honest, not blindly follow any person's (or group's) words. It's not that I don't trust people like my teacher, it's just that something like this is very subjective and personal in nature. I made sure to have an adequate trial period with the tuba I have now both to play on at home and to take to rehearsals.

[TUbajohn20J]

My teachers all recommended something like a Miraphone 1291 CC tuba or one of the Perantucci CC tubas. But what did I go with??? A Willson 3100 FA5 BBb

[sloan]

Whether valid or not... (and not necessarily my own view)

...you are invited to respond to this additional comment:

"Not all great music-teachers-who-play-the-tuba are equipment geeks. Several really fine models of tubas and mouthpieces have been created in the last few years, and "your teacher" may-or-may-not have played or heard of any of these models.

My response: most students looking for their first tuba are not well served by "equipment geek" recommendations.

[Michael Bush]

Don't ask this tuba teacher. He'll tell you to just get better on what you have or what the school provides for you. That's rarely what the student or poster wants to hear.

That's an excellent point. Once a golf teaching pro told me with good humor but still rather bluntly when I started talking about new irons, "The problem is not the sticks." I've thought about that a lot lately. I suspect that beyond a certain fundamental level of quality it's pretty easy for most of us to overspend on equipment. Certainly it is for me.

[SRanney]

I've recently begun learning how to play bluegrass and old-time fiddle. I play with an inexpensive bow because A) it was cheap and B) I'm not good enough to make anything more expensive sound better. Every fiddle player I've talked to (and read online) suggests that until the player knows they need a new bow, they don't really need a new bow. I would imagine that a similar thought would apply to tuba players: until a tuba player knows--without question--that they need a new tuba, they don't need a new tuba.

[windshieldbug]

Say what you will, but before the 'net it was VERY HARD to get any reliable information about things tuba related in most areas.

Now it's just easier to get unreliable information...

[Donn]

But as a student, everything you know is wrong. The only time you're right, is when you know you don't know, so in any case you might as well ask someone who knows.

The hypothetical situation we seem to be talking about here is far removed from my experience, but apparently the subject might be 18 or so and may be about to purchase a new and rather expensive tuba. How long do we expect that tuba to serve - couple years? Longer? Let's say 4 years, and look in on our hypothetical owner midway at 2 years. I'm assuming that the owner is a music student, didn't get the tuba so he could join the circus or something upon graduation, and is now a junior in college. Is he or she significantly better? Gosh, I would hope so, and maybe he's glad some high school kid didn't pick out a tuba for him.

[bigbob]

Whether valid or not... (and not necessarily my own view)

...you are invited to respond to this additional comment:

"Not all great music-teachers-who-play-the-tuba are equipment geeks. Several really fine models of tubas and mouthpieces have been created in the last few years, and "your teacher" may-or-may-not have played or heard of any of these models.

What are these new models Bloke???..................BB

[bigboymusic]

Back in 85 or 86, Arnold Jacobs made a comment to my parents that I think fits this thread. I played on a Meinl Weston 20 that the school owned, and loved playing it. When asked about what we should look into for a personal instrument, this was his response - A high end tuba will not make your son play better, that is up to him. HOWEVER, getting the highest quality instrument in his hands as early as possible will never be a negative.

This was also followed by a statement that I still tell my students today - "also remember, you get what you pay for"

24ish years later as a public school teacher/adjubct tuba teacher, I think this is still very important. Yes, as was said earlier, a student needs to know how to get the best out of his/her playing no matter what hunk of junk is placed before them. But I still tell my private students that there IS a difference in a 3K horn and an 8K horn. The question is, can you make the 8K horn do what it is capable of? Can you suck just as bad on an 8K horn as a 3K horn? YES! We have all know the kid with the HB-21 or the brand new PT-6 and a PT-10 that still sat at the bottom of the studio even though he had the 'right equipment'. I knew a grad student from Arkansas about ten years ago that played the most hideous 188 I have ever seen. But she was AWESOME!!!!

But all in all, for most kids (and adults) it will be easier to make better music in the long run with an instrument that won't fight you. Quality is always a good buy in my opinion. Finding the right combination of quality and affordability for the student is the hard part.....

off my soap box........

[tofu]

I've personally found that really good repair guys - who are also tuba players to be extremely helpful. I know Matt Walters helped me a lot in the purchase of the right horn. I also value Lee Stofer's opinion and certainly think Bloke or Dan Oberloh would be very helpful. I think a retailer/tuba player like Dave Fedderly would be very helpful in making an informed purchase.

When I was in HS 3+ decades ago it seemed like buying a horn was like making almost a lifetime purchase as there were few avenues for easily reselling or ways to value (price) it. If you bought the wrong one you felt like you were stuck with it. I think today with the advent of the internet it isn't an absolutely have to nail it decision any more. If you get the wrong horn for you it is fairly easy to resell it without too much of a loss and then you can pursue the right horn.

[toobaa]

Without a doubt, there is much more info available than there used to be. When i was in elementary school (feels like a dozen decades ago) i played trumpet and somewhere my parents had picked up one for me. It was what i learned to play on. Got to be a sophmore in high school and i could afford to take lessons. I was having perpetual trouble with G and A above staff. Finally my teacher grabbed my trumpet and put his mouthpiece in and proceeded to play...about 4 notes. He called my mother right in and said i needed a better horn. She told him we couldn't afford much and had no clue what to buy. He said he'd take care of us, so even with my contributing my savings from babysitting it was a stretch to shell out $200. He said that'd be fine and took a check from my parents and my money. Came back next week with an instrument that was nearly new, but boy, oh boy, did my playing improve, Bs and Cs came out crystal clear with no problem, tone was so much better. i relied upon my teacher's advice and won big time - it ended up being an olds recording.

Of course, i eventually ended up playing tuba, but that's another story.

[Rick Denney]

Those who cannot decide which tuba to buy on their own, based on their own experience and understanding of their own objectives, should buy a competent tuba that will hold its value. That will allow them to defer the choice of a really expensive instrument until they are ready, and possibly until they can buy it with their own money.

I think I can recommend a competent tuba that will hold its value without knowing a thing about the person asking my opinion.

When the person has exhausted the potential of a competent tuba, they will not need anyone's advice as to what to buy next, nor will they lose their shirt when they sell the instrument to fund the purchase of what they really want and need. And if they end up as a hobbyist, like most do, that competent instrument may be all they ever need.

I doubt anyone ever held themselves back by first owning a Miraphone 186, a King 2341, a Meinl-Weston 25, etc. I would doubt that anyone was ever prevented from attaining excellence even if they owned something of less-than-sterling reputation, such as a Yamaha 641. Used, these instruments can be bought for what they will fetch five years from now, if they are cared for.

If I were a teacher, that is the advice I would give.

Again, I go back to the famous story of the self-impressed hot-shot high-school golfer who went to college and instructed the college coach not to do anything to "ruin" his swing. Says coach: "Son, you don't even have a swing, yet." Would it matter which brand of clubs where in that young golfer's bag? I somehow doubt it.

The first tuba in my possession was a Besson Stratford. I replaced it (at age 26) with a Cerveny cheapie (from Michigan). Yes, there was a difference. No, the Stratford cannot be blamed for my own deficiencies. It would be difficult for any 17-year-old these days to end up with a worse tuba than that Stratford, unless they buy some unplayable tuba-shaped sculpture from some distant shore, and even those are getting harder and harder to find.

Rick "bassoon players have it worse" Denney

[windshieldbug]

bassoon players have it worse

Yes. They have to stand even nearer to those god-awful things than we do...

[cjk]

Truth:

I once asked my teacher about a tuba.

He told me to ask bloke.