Suite of Old American Dances

[jeopardymaster]

I need a consult. I haven't done the Bennett Suite in eons, but it is coming up in the next couple of weeks in a local pro band that I play in. I have the part, and I'm noticing a lot of it is divisi with the upper part in a surprisingly high tessitura.

Given that Bennett was such a hoss of an arranger and certainly knew what he was doing (I presume he assigned the parts himself), I'm preparing both octaves, but for those of you who have played this more recently, how important is that upper octave to the overall ensemble? Are not the euphoniums doubling this already? I just want to be prepared.

[imperialbari]

I don’t know this music, at least I am not aware about knowing it. But I did a few references on the web and found this composition being written in 1950.

Was that just around the end of Eb tubas being common in US bands? The original setting may reflect older divisi practices automatically selected according to pitch of instrument.

It is my experience of many years with bands, that the lower of two bass lines voiced in octaves always is the most important one to play, if there is only one tuba.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

I don’t know this music, at least I am not aware about knowing it. But I did a few references on the web and found this composition being written in 1950.

Was that just around the end of Eb tubas being common in US bands? The original setting may reflect older divisi practices automatically selected according to pitch of instrument.

It is my experience of many years with bands, that the lower of two bass lines voiced in octaves always is the most important one to play, if there is only one tuba.

Klaus

[UNMTUBADUDE]

Our Symphonic Band here at UNM played all 5 movements of this in the Spring Semester. We had 4 tubas... 2 of us took the upper part and myself and another guy took the lower part. There are some points on the 1st movement that the euphoniums take the high part. The 2nd and 4th movements are the two that you should be able to play regular on. The 3rd and 5th Movements might be best to stick with the lower parts. It depends on how many euphoniums and trombones you have. If you have a skeleton crew in that department, then you may need to double up. Overall its a very fun piece to play. I would suggest watching some of the versions on YouTube. Ridgewood Concert Band does all of them except the 4th. They do a pretty good job on them. Have fun..

[UNMTUBADUDE]

Ridgewood Concert Band playing Suite Of Old American Dances Movement 5: Rag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCZaBecy8ck This was my favorite movement to play.
Same band playing 2 and 3
Movement 2: Schottische
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMM3kRosljk
Movement 3 Western One Step
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWps13SUgTY
Another band playing the first movement
Movement 1: Cakewalk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuUgjgdkbv4
Yet another band playing Movement 4
Movement 4: Walflower Waltz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdqmGkcYXAc

[Wyvern]

I played this piece in rehearsal only last week when we had a guest American conductor at band. A good fun piece! As I was the only tuba, I mostly took the lower part, but do not remember anything which is not playable on a CC.

We were told the piece was composed for the Goldman Band which I believe were a top band with presumably players of a calibre to have no trouble with the range.

[Bob Kolada]

The last time I played it, I played the top on a Hirsbrunner Eb and the other 2-3 guys played the bottom part on 1291 Bb's. I wouldn't put any more than 1 (good! not to say I am ) player on the top and it should be on a bass tuba. Otherwise it turns into "Berlioz in America".

Interesting side note- a community band I used to play in had a guy play bass trombone in the summers (he lived south during the winter) and would direct a few songs. He said that he and his wife played the premier of this in college. That+him being a bass trombone playing conductor=extremely awesome!

[sloan]

Perhaps a silly question, but I'll ask anyway. Does the part *say* "divisi", or does it simply show two notes in octaves?

And...are they *always* either octaves or unison?

If it doesn't specifically *say* "divisi" and it's always in octaves, then I would treat them as courtesy options.
Play either, or both, depending on equipment and your own sense of which version sounds best. With only 1 tuba, I agree with Klaus that the lower note is "preferred" - but I would still treat this as "play whichever one does NOT challenge your personal range in any way". If both are easy and will sound wonderful - play the bottom. If you have "issues" with the bottom notes - feel free to go high. (unless, of course, the bottom is there as a courtesy for those who have issues with the high notes - it should be obvious when this is the case).

With more than one tuba in a section, I'd start by letting each player make up his own mind (as above) - but I would now change the choices made by the folk who can play either note equally beautifully. Now, my preference is to have the section play both, with an ideal ratio of 3 on the bottom and 1 on top. Here, 1 high and 1 low is better than 2 low (and 2 low is better than 2 high).

Every once in a blue moon, the conductor will care and will say so. But...don't ask - because in the 90% of the time that they don't care, they probably don't even know that there's a divisi in the part.

At my feeble level of playing, there are times when the section can't handle some of the low notes cleanly - then a conductor might ask for a divisi (one, or two, high for the articulation, the rest low for the pitch).

So...low one first, high if you must, cover both when you can, but weight the low more heavily. I think that covers it.

Of course, if the part specifically says "divisi", then you cover both. That can sometimes be a problem (if you are the only one on the part - work on your multiphonics...)

[jeopardymaster]

It's Tim Olt and me on our matching Gnageys, and I see no point lugging an extra peckhorn around for just the one piece.

As I said, it's a Robert Russell Bennett work, and he doesn't fart around when he arranges - I'm sure he meant what he wrote, but as noted, if it was for the Goldman Band that's a far different vehicle from our wind ensemble setup.

Not sure but I believe we have 1 euph; the trombones are 1 per part, topnotch players all. I expect we'll default to unison a lot rather than divisi, but I'll talk it over with the director. We're on very good terms, plus I did their reorg to recover 501c3 status, so I don't mind asking.

Many thanks for the input, folks.

[DonShirer]

This is one of my favorite pieces! Although (heresy!) I think I prefer the orchestral arrangement (which he did a year after the band one) slightly better.

[Bandmaster]

Gee.... I just played this one last night in a concert! Four BBb tubas on the bottom and one strong Eb tuba on top. Sounded nice that way...

[Ken Herrick]

I played this at Interlochen long ago with Fred Fennel conducting. He felt that the upper octave was really meant for string bass but, he had me play the upper octave parts anyway.
I'd say if you feel condifent with it and the conductor agrees, somebody might as well have some fun.
A good fun piece.

[Wyvern]

Unless it is documented we cannot be sure if the top part is intended for bass tuba (F/Eb), or String bass. Mind you, that is also the case with a lot of British military band music of the earlier 20th century. A piece I played with a previous band was Zampa (Hérold) - a lot of the top part on that is high and I used to enjoy playing on my Eb, but the old ex-Royal Marine BBb player in the band insisted it was really intended for Sting Bass. As Zampa is a French work, I thought the high register tuba quite appropriate to the music

[Cameron Gates]

I've played this more than a few times, and seem to recall the part as marked, "Basses".

Does that include string bass? If so, then the upper divisi, going to high F would make sense as written for double bass, sounding the same octave as the bottom divisi scored for tubas.

Wise words.

[imperialbari]

..... but the old ex-Royal Marine BBb player in the band insisted it was really intended for Sting Bass. As Zampa is a French work, I thought the high register tuba quite appropriate to the music

Not to police your spelling, but this what he insisted?:

[imperialbari]

..... but the old ex-Royal Marine BBb player in the band insisted it was really intended for Sting Bass. As Zampa is a French work, I thought the high register tuba quite appropriate to the music

Not to police your spelling, but this what he insisted?:

[Cameron Gates]

I think Mr. Bennett would only settle for the best.



This is the obvious choice in all situations. You should hear him on the band version of "Victory at Sea".

[imperialbari]

I think Mr. Bennett would only settle for the best.



This is the obvious choice in all situations. You should hear him on the band version of "Victory at Sea".

If we follow the troops and march trough the gates of Cameron, wouldn’t this then be the right instrument for playing the octave passages?

[Cameron Gates]

I think Mr. Bennett would only settle for the best.



This is the obvious choice in all situations. You should hear him on the band version of "Victory at Sea".

If we follow the troops and march trough the gates of Cameron, wouldn’t this then be the right instrument for playing the octave passages?

My bad. You, Sir, are correct.

BTW, my first son was born on Feb 11, 2002 (**2112**) and my second son is named Sawyer. "Geddy" did not fly with the old lady.

[MileMarkerZero]

I think Mr. Bennett would only settle for the best.



This is the obvious choice in all situations. You should hear him on the band version of "Victory at Sea".

If we follow the troops and march trough the gates of Cameron, wouldn’t this then be the right instrument for playing the octave passages?

My bad. You, Sir, are correct.

BTW, my first son was born on Feb 11, 2002 (**2112**) and my second son is named Sawyer. "Geddy" did not fly with the old lady.

A friend of mine was Neal Peart's roadie for several years. You should see the Rush memorabilia he has...

To stay on topic:

When playing it alone I have always just played whatever made for the smoothest, most "melodic" bass lines.

Probably the best plan on this piece (as well as a legion of other pieces). I think a lot of the upper octave stuff is already doubled in the euph part as well. Since you are playing in a wind ensemble mode (1-to-a-part) in the low brass, I think that playing the upper octave poses a risk of being...I don't know...overbearing (for want of a better term).