stumbling around on the trumpet

[elimia]

Here's the story:

I play euphonium in my band (rock/jazz), but lately we've been playing around writing some spanish stuff which sounds much better on trumpet. For about a year a friend has lent me her old school King (MADE IN USA!) trumpet. I tinked around on it a little initially but am now trying to be able to cover a little stuff on it.

Here's where I'm at. I suck. I don't have a clue how to properly set the embouchure, air (do I use euphonium air volume or less air volume and just higher speed?). I found by rolling my lips in slightly it allows me to play up a little higher but then I start turning purple and I lose all embouchure flexibility. I still sound crappy buzzing on the mpc alone.

I thought I'd ask my low brass brethren where to begin. The horn came with a Benge 7c mpc, which I thought was pretty small. So I bought a Bach 1 trumpet mpc but that seems to need truckloads of embouchure. Would a different mpc help? I hate to go through the crop rotation of mpcs but will buy another one if it would help. I play a Bach 5G on the euphonium.

I sound wicked as long as I stay below D above BC staff but if I wander up to that F concert, the cats go running. My low register E concert sounds great too. I'm a non-pro so this is just a little endeavor to add more color to our group's sound. Do I just need to stick with the standard buzzing and patience?

Confounded in Kentucky
Ryan

[royjohn]

I suppose there are a thousand theories on how to play the trumpet and you could go to Trumpet Herald or Trumpet Master and investigate that, but you might become more confused than enlightened.

I think you are on the right track with a little roll-in to play higher. I think of lip buzzing followed by mpc buzzing followed by leadpipe buzzing followed by playing the horn. Fifteen minutes of lip buzzing once or twice a day should help. If you can't lip buzz it [a pitch or song], you are not going to be able to play it right.

Make sure the mpc is on the white and not on the red on both lips.

If you can make a decent lip buzz and then sneak the horn onto the lips that should show you how to play correctly and place the mpc where it belongs. Getting it there consistently may take a few hundred or thousand trials.

I think the trumpet requires a lot less air, but more air pressure, esp. up high. Don't bust a gutt, though. With proper technique, even high C should feel pretty easy. The big bugbear, maybe moreso than on low brass, is too much mpc pressure. The old exercise of placing the trumpet on your palm and playing that way may help. some folks can reach high C above the treble staff this way. Think lip compression, possibly aided by a little roll-in. Don't smile.

Truth is, trumpet is just as hard, maybe harder, than tuba, so it will take just as much practice.

When I went from a Bach 3 to a Bach 1, everything was immediately better. If you suck on a 1, try something between the 1 and the 7C if the latter seems too small. The 5C and the 7C are really the same ID, just a little different shape, so try a 3 or something similar. The Kelly's are $21 and Trumpet Herald's marketplace has all sorts of used pieces.

[iiipopes]

I switched from trumpet to tuba in school, and still play high brass occasionally: taps at a funeral, filling in a 2nd or 3rd part, bugling for my son's Scout troop, etc. Generally, playing higher pitched brass needs more velocity of air and not necessarily as much volume of air. Bernoulli's principle at work. The corners of the embouchure need to be as firm if not more firm for high brass. Do not under any circumstance use more pressure than minimally necessary to make sure the mouthpiece has a good seal on the embouchure.

I respectfully disagree with the rolling of the lips. Even though it works for Cat Anderson, and that there is a whole school of embouchure and playing high notes based on rolling the embouchure in or out, it can interfere with good low brass technique.

As far as mouthpiece, a standard mouthpiece for high brass is a Bach 3C. It is a good all-round mouthpiece that performs well on King trumpets. I've had mine for over thirty years, and even though I try others, I keep coming back to it. You can find them used cheap. Get an older one, as the newer ones are made with newer tools to "spec," which is smaller than Bach used to make them. Older Bach mouthpieces are notorious for being larger diameter than "spec," due to Bach resharpening the cutters instead of replacing them as Schilke does.

Get something like a Rubank Advanced Method and work on the flexibility exercises and duets. Take frequent breaks. Lightly "blubber" your lips often to make sure the blood, and therefore oxygen, is getting to the embouchure muscles. Patience. Even though you are experienced on euph, it will take a couple of years to get up to full concert level on high brass.

I have really good range and tone on high brass. But my endurance is very limited, as opposed to being able to play all day and night if necessary on tuba. This is fairly common among low brass players who tweak high brass occasionally. With the dropoff in endurance comes the temptation to use more pressure on the mouthpiece. Avoid the pressure at all costs, even if it means laying down the horn for the day. Or evening. Or even the gig. You will hurt your embouchure if you keep going past terminal fatigue.

Since as low brass players we are taught to use more volume of air, I would try to find a trumpet that has a freer "blow" to it, because the King 600 beginner trumpet, known in a prior generation as the "Cleveland" model, is made with inherent resistance to help young beginning trumpet players and others with limited vital capacity learn proper breath support. For example, my son's Bach CR300 cornet has inherent resistance also, and it can feel stuffy to me, especially in the upper register. OTOH, my Besson 2-20 trumpet with its large bore and open blow allows me to put as much air through it as I need.

Recently at a band rehearsal a young lady with a B&S Bach clone ML bore sat in with us. It was all she could do to get high notes, and it was apparent her breath support was not completely developed. Likewise, her high school band director, although a fairly good trombone player, also had breath support issues, as they squeaked out notes at about an mp to mf dynamic as they rose above the staff. I asked to try out the horn. Yes, it was a tad stuffy, but I told both of them it was a matter of breath support, and proceeded to belt out melodies between top of the staff G and double ledger line C at FF level to rattle the rafters with no pressure on the embouchure or "coaxing" of the instrument as they were doing. Now, I can't do that all night long, but I was able to do it enough for them to get the point. Breath support is where it's at so the embouchure can effectively and efficiently vibrate as a function of the application of Bernoulli's principle.

[elimia]

I pick up the trumpet once a day and play on it for a little while. I will continue the buzzing. I hadn't considered the issue with the King being a student trumpet and gauged more towards 10 year olds than an almost 40 year old.

Bach 3C, I'll keep an eye out for that. I'm able to do some basic fills and color right now but my range is really limited. I appreciate all the good comments and will keep at it with your caveats in mind.

Ryan