First Brass Band Experience. Advice??

[Tom Holtz]

From above: Learn treble clef. Don't bother with transposing tricks. It will take time and patience. You will frequently sit and watch notes go by in the meantime. They can come at you fast in brass band. Have fun.

[Dean E]

If piano players can sight read and perform from two clefs, with two or more notes per clef, can it really be that difficult for tuba players to learn treble clef?

A word of hope: I believe that some brass band publishers have begun printing tuba parts in concert key.

[termite]

The original poster has told us that he will be playing the BBb part on CC tuba. I think the easiest thing here is to read treble clef and transpose down a tone.

When I played clarinet I was expected to be able to play C clarinet parts on Bb clarinet (and occasionally on A clarinet). I was also expected to be able play Bb parts on the A and vice versa. The higher AMEB grades included "C" and "A" transposition in the sightreading section.

Transposing is a skill that improves rapidly with a little bit of practice especially when you're doing the same jump all the time. Transposing down a tone will very quickly become second nature. I'm assuming that the player can read treble clef in the first place. If not, then that is another job to do.

Regards

Gerard

[imperialbari]

I am fairly experienced in transposing, yet I was surprised by a CC-player in a brass band, where we both were ringers. I knew he was supposed to play piano at the conservatory, so I assumed he read treble clef and transposed. Not so! Rather he considered the BBb treble part being written in bass clef and then applied F-tuba fingerings. Keys and accidentals were adjusted accordingly.

Klaus

[cwarren]

I do have experience reading treble clef, which will come in handy! I just have to get used to reading the Bb treble clef parts. I read piano scores decently well, so hopefully this will benefit me in some way.

As previously suggested, I will practice and try my best to actually LEARN the different clefs. I know some people have mentioned that "tricks" to transposing my be easier, but if I want to keep playing in this genre, I suppose just learning it outright will be much more beneficial.

Rather he considered the BBb treble part being written in bass clef and then applied F-tuba fingerings. Keys and accidentals were adjusted accordingly.

So he read the parts in bass clef and applied F fingerings? That's quite an interesting way to think of it. It seems much more complicated, though.

[Wyvern]

And in brass band remember they like blending of the section and organ like bass tone, particularly on the BBb part. Very different (IMHO) from orchestral playing were the tubist is often a soloist

[brattom]

I am fairly experienced in transposing, yet I was surprised by a CC-player in a brass band, where we both were ringers. I knew he was supposed to play piano at the conservatory, so I assumed he read treble clef and transposed. Not so! Rather he considered the BBb treble part being written in bass clef and then applied F-tuba fingerings. Keys and accidentals were adjusted accordingly.

Klaus

If you play F tuba, this is the easiest way to play CC tuba on Bb treble clef part. Add three flats. No transposing. Accidentals can get a little tricky since some flats become double flats and some sharps become naturals.

When you see a treble clef C scale, read as a bass clef E flat scale. Play on a CC tuba with F tuba fingerings and a concert B flat scale comes out. This is exactly the same thing F tuba players do when they read E flat treble clef. The relationship of an F tuba to a E flat part is the same as a CC tuba to a B flat part (one whole step), so the fingerings are the same.

In the end it doesn't really matter how you do it as long as the right notes come out.

[iiipopes]

I'm am going to disagree with some of the advice here. Don't learn Bb trumpet fingerings. This only works if you are using a Bb tuba and it does not help with valve combinations that use the 4th or 5th valve. You should learn the notes; then you can use the fingering that works for the tuba you are playing, BBb, CC or whatever.

Get the book Introducing the Tenor Clef by Fink. It's for trombone, but is a very easy way to learn Bb treble clef. It even has a section that explains how to read the key signatures and accidentals. As a bonus, you will also learn tenor clef at the same time. (Don't get a trombone book that also teaches alto clef, e.g. Blazevich.)

Two problems:
1) Brass bands never use tenor clef.
2) This book is for concert pitch reading. All brass band music, save bass bone which is written in concert pitch, is written in transposed treble clef.

All brass band music was derived from the saxhorn family, with the addition of trombones. So the convention for every valved instrument is that the first open valve pitch not a pedal tone (second harmonic) is notated as middle C, first ledger line below the treble clef, as is the convention of standard Bb trumpet concert band, jazz band, and treble clef euphonium writing as we know it in the USA. Therefore the primary advice is secure: purchase a standard trumpet/cornet method, learn the treble clef from scratch, and go for it.

[Mark]

Two problems:
1) Brass bands never use tenor clef.
2) This book is for concert pitch reading. All brass band music, save bass bone which is written in concert pitch, is written in transposed treble clef.

No, no problems. Brass bands don't use tenor clef; but the Bb treble clef corresponds to the tenor clef in concert pitches. A concert C in Bb treble clef is on the fourth line of the staff. A concert C in tenor clef is on the fourth line of the staff. Trombone players who know tenor clef, have no trouble switching to Bb treble clef for brass bands. And, as I said, the Fink book has a section explaining how to handle key signatures and accidentals when switching to Bb treble from tenor.

[GC]

Not all brass band parts are written according to standard British practice. I have seen solo trombone parts written in tenor clef several times, just like I occasionally come across tuba parts in bass clef (often listed as C Tuba) or F horn parts for alto.

[Lew]

If piano players can sight read and perform from two clefs, with two or more notes per clef, can it really be that difficult for tuba players to learn treble clef?

A word of hope: I believe that some brass band publishers have begun printing tuba parts in concert key.

There is a big difference here in that when playing piano you are hitting a key that corresponds to each note. It would be a different story if the piano player had to read different parts and they had to hit different keys on the keyboard depending on which type of part they were looking at. When playing brass band music you are playing transposed parts so that the concert pitch you are playing is not the note written. (Yes I know most other band instruments do this too, but they just learn the fingerings based on the transposed parts to begin with).

When reading treble clef BBb parts on a BBb horn, knowing what treble clef C is doesn't help because you are playing a concert Bb. If you tried to play the same part on a C tuba, you still need to play a Bb for a written C, but using a different fingering and potentially on a different partial. Then try switching to the treble clef Eb parts and when you see a written C you have to play an Eb. Now try that on a C tuba...

This is why playing the Eb parts on an Eb tuba still seems easiest to me, but if I have to play the BBb parts on BBb tuba, I just think in terms of Eb fingerings.

[cwarren]

I have been playing F tuba for a couple of months. In fact, I enjoy it more than playing my large horn. The F came much easier than the CC did for me, but I suppose that has something to do with knowing some of the fingerings as they share some common fingerings.

I'll have to give the F tuba thing a try! I have access to a BBb tuba, but it wouldn't be certain that I could take it every week to rehearsal so I think I'm going to stick with learning the parts on CC or F. I'm not sure how the section blends now, but I know the have one CC, two Bb's, and one Eb horn in the bass section. It might be beneficial to take both horns and try them both out? I don't know what the consensus is on playing F tuba in Brass Band!

[Mark]

I don't know what the consensus is on playing F tuba in Brass Band!

If you are in the USA and you are playing the Eb part, then an F tuba would be okay. If you are playing the Bb part, the F tuba would not produce the right sound for that section.

[iiipopes]

My one experience with a brass band from England showed me the importance of the local pub!
Great time!
Ken F.

Indeed. We all agree on that!