Yamaha sousaphones

[Arkietuba]

I concur 100% with your observations!

We had these in my high school and college (only 4/16 were Yamahas in college...the others were Conn 20Ks). They always felt heavier than the Conns that we had. Not sure what the exact weight is, but there was a definite difference in how heavy it felt compared to the others. Every Yamaha sousa I have played was SHARP. This was even more evident when the sousa section tried to tune to each other and 4 of the 16 sousas were way sharper than the others. I liked the sound I got out of the horn when I was playing in Dixieland but on the field...it was not pleasant. It was really easy to get an edgy sound. Also, the bell tended to "ring" for a long time after ending a note.

Last year, I eventually gave up playing on the Yamahas and switched to the "nicest" Conn 20K the school had...all of them were from the 50's and mine was being held together with tape. I still got a better sound and better intonation from that old, beat up horn than I did with the 2 year old Yamaha. Now, I don't have to worry about that since the school got all new Jupiter marching brass and these horns (while I'm partial to the 20K) are great! Way better than playing on something that requires strategically placed tape.

[imperialbari]

I haven”t played Yamaha sousaphones, and only have heard the fiber version live. 9 samples at the same time, when I happened to be in one of our holiday towns 21 years ago. A large Canadian high school band visited the central band of the Copenhagen school systems at their summer camp.

I noticed no bad intonation, and the sound appeared coherent over the section.

My point is not to dismiss bloke’s review, only I wonder whether some instruments are built to some local standards adapted to specific playing styles and standards and then still are marketed into areas and market sections, where playing traditions are different.

About half of the Canadian players were fairly short girls and of course all were young. My immediate take might be that the Yamaha sousaphones are intended for the local Japanese market, where body sizes at least used to be less overwhelming than in the US and in Europe.

When a very competent player like bloke applies his enormous throughput of air, the pitch equation intended for a more modest throughput may easily be skewed.

I used to consider the then recently introduced Yamaha 2xx and 3XX series a revelation for my teaching compared to the very out of tune British, Czech, and Dutch instruments previously affordable for school budgets. But I never liked playing them myself. There are widely liked brands not represented in my collection. Not necessarily bad, but not fitting me.

Klaus

[tuba-tobias]

Bloke edited his post, no longer any need for my reply.

[toobagrowl]

I have wondered about Yamaha sousaphones myself. Yamahas always came across to me as vanilla and somewhat bland, but consistent and easy to play.

Way back in high school, some 10-15 years ago, my band had silver-plated King sousas. We had 5 of them. 3 of them were the regular 2350S Kings, and one was a one-piece bell H.N. White King and the other was a bigger H.N. White King one-piece bell sousa. The big one (King 'Giant'?) had a larger throat, bell and longer pistons. The "King" logo was bigger and fancier on the bell too. A BIG, rich, yet centered sound emitted from that horn. All sousas were overhauled and silver-plated my freshman year.
Every tuba player loved playing on them. These sousas sure sounded GOOD out on the feild - bold, yet 'sweet' sound typical of Kings. They were also very in-tune sousas with decent response. Low range could be somewhat stuffy, but the sound was sure there.
I actually prefer the sturdier bracing on the regular King sousas (the fancier H.N. White bracing was not as durable). The H.N. White Kings had a *little* more core to the sound to the slightly more "hollow" sounding King 2350s, but they all sounded great. The Kings are my favorite sounding sousas; I even like them better than the Conns.

Anyway, getting to the Yamaha sousas .....
I have heard some pretty decent sounds come out of the Yammie sousas; even the fiberglass Yammies The nastiest sousa sounds I have heard were from Jupiters. But even then, they could not compete with on-the-shoulder Contrabasses...
Some of the rawest cimbasso-esque sounds I have heard
I hope that doesn't ruffle to many feathers

But for some reason, I have been somewhat nostalgic for a BBb tuba or even a BBb sousa. I am tempted to buy a used one; either a King or Yamaha for "shits and giggles" fun playing

[toobagrowl]

^ Well that has been my experience and my ears sure remember it almost 15 years later I think we pretty much agree on Jupiters and shoulder-mounted Contrabasses

[Lew]

I tried a Yamaha sousaphone once years ago when the band director conductor of a community band I was in had them. I have to agree with your assessment. I prefer the 20K hands down, and for the same price, even with the watered down versions of the 20K sold now, that would be a better choice.

Interestingly I traded "up" at one time from an older King (2350 I guess or similar) from the 50s to a 60s era 20K and after playing the 20K for a while really missed the King. The sound was clearer and intonation better on the King. I have since sold the 20K and only have a 40K and 28K both from the 20s, but I don't think either of them play any better than that King did.

[J.c. Sherman]

It's always been my understanding that these instruments weren't really made by Yamaha... Perhaps by Jupiter. The overall quality - to me - hasn't measured up and they are mediocre instruments. To me, that's a red flag, as I've never played a "bad" Yamaha besides this model.

The Jupiters are slowly-improving copies of the Kings. Slowly. The 4-valvers are weidly proportioned like a 14K. (NB, techs - Jupiter fiberglass bells are inexpensive replacements for Kings when they crack - but the Jupiters are irrepairable if cracked.) Both are not great instruments, but I would surely like to buy the Jupiter 4v sections for other projects...

J.c.S.

[Timswisstuba]

It's always been my understanding that these instruments weren't really made by Yamaha... Perhaps by Jupiter. The overall quality - to me - hasn't measured up and they are mediocre instruments. To me, that's a red flag, as I've never played a "bad" Yamaha besides this model.

I agree 100%.

I would surely like to buy the Jupiter 4v sections for other projects...

Good luck trying to do this. Jupiter and other companies seem reluctant to sell their parts to anyone out of fear of someone making a competing product.

[toobagrowl]

It's always been my understanding that these instruments weren't really made by Yamaha... Perhaps by Jupiter. The overall quality - to me - hasn't measured up and they are mediocre instruments. To me, that's a red flag, as I've never played a "bad" Yamaha besides this model.

Are you sure about that? Bloke has commented on the superb workmanship on the Yammie sousa and how it plays and sounds different than the Jupiter.
I have played on Yamaha tubas (many) and sousas (only one or two, though) and Jupiter tubas and have heard players on both Yamaha and Jupiter sousas. While you could say Yamahas have a "vanilla" sound, I have heard decent "vanilla" sounds from the Yammies, but have yet to hear a decent sound come from a Jupiter sousa.

The Yamaha and Jupiter sousas have completely different specs and layout:http://www.free-scores.com/boutique/sho ... phones.htm

Interestingly, Jupiter tries to copy King with their sousas. But they sure don't sound the same.....that's for sure.

I have to agree with Lew on the Kings. The Conns are well built and have a good sound, but the King plays better in tune and I like their more compact, centered and sweeter sound to the broader, "woofy" sound of the Conns.

Btw, has anyone played on one of those 4 valve Dynasty sousa? Looks like an interesting horn!

[iiipopes]

A few years ago the regional state university replaced all of their venerable King souzys with Jupiters. I was there when they were uncrated, by coincidence of being at community band in the same evening. Some of them were denting just from normal handling in the uncrating process. The brass was so thin that there was the underlying drone buzzing from the instruments that you could not dial out. The 24AW mouthpieces that come with them need to be thrown back in the melting pot. I got to play side by side one of the ancient Kings and the new Jupiters, and I could hardly get two notes out of the Jupiter before I put it down in disgust. One guy, a good tuba major who contributes to the forum, was the only person I knew who could get any tone out of one, using a Schilke HII.

Oh, this is a Yammy thread...I have had the distinct pleasure of never having been saddled with a Yammy souzy.

But there is one I am curious about: the custom carbon fibre souzys that Yammy made for Disney. I think there are a couple of old threads out there about how they played, but I can't find them. Anybody?

[Mcordon1]

I have many of the same observations Bloke has about the Yamahas.
Low Bb is overblown annoyingly easily, but low A down to E isn't as terrible as Bb.

[J.c. Sherman]

It's always been my understanding that these instruments weren't really made by Yamaha... Perhaps by Jupiter. The overall quality - to me - hasn't measured up and they are mediocre instruments. To me, that's a red flag, as I've never played a "bad" Yamaha besides this model.

Are you sure about that? Bloke has commented on the superb workmanship on the Yammie sousa and how it plays and sounds different than the Jupiter.

Bloke and I often agree

We both don't really seam to like how they play. And the Yammys don't resemble the Jupiters in the slightest. And they aren't built like "crap", but they are flimsy. And if you really look at them, the slide tube ends, ferules, everything looks NOT Yamaha in every detail besides the valve buttons and bottom caps.

Just my own opinion and the information I learned from my apprenticeship.

[TUbajohn20J]

CONN 20K!!

[Arkietuba]

So, I've had a few days on our school's new Jupiter sousaphones and haven't noticed any of the bad things that others have mentioned. I mean...I'd still prefer a Conn 20K over one of these but these are some of the easiest sousas to play on. Its almost effortless to produce a good sound on them. These sound more like "tubas" as opposed to "sousas" too. I'm thoroughly impressed with them.

[toobagrowl]

^ Hey, if it works for you and you sound good on it then great Maybe Jupiter has improved these sousas over the years too. Everyone has opinions and likes different things. Some tuba players really enjoy the Conn souzys and some really enjoy the Kings. I recently bought an old 4-valve Eb King Raincatcher Souzy from a certain website and am in love!! This horn has such a warm and sweet sound. I am still getting used to it but I am having a blast!

[SousaSaver]

I like the Yamaha Sousaphones. I think that the issues brought forth in this forum are legitimate and should be addressed. It should be noted though that Yamaha is trying something different with the detachable branches and valve cluster. These features make it easier to service these instruments.

[J.c. Sherman]

' just finished servicing several. I didn't take apart any of the branches, and didn't remove any of the valvesets...

...but I DID scrounge up some lap brace screws out my my own junk to replace some that were missing on those instruments.

I REALLY believe the reason those parts are detachable is to be able to hire large or small (as well as male or female) people to BUFF the parts of those sousaphones during the MANUFACTURING process.

Get outa my head, man!!!!

Seriously, I think you're right; and those cursed screws come out all the bloody time!