Downsizing

[TYA]

Hi right now I have a 5/4 CC tuba but it is physical too big for me. I have trouble holding it in place because I am short. I was thinking about going down to a tuba that is more ergonomic for me. I was thinking about going down to a King 1241. Would the King have a nice big round sound like the 5/4 tuba? And just double checking buy the King 1241 is a BBb tuba right? Would it be wrong to cut it down to a CC? Would anyone be able to list some other smaller physical sized tubas that has a huge sound that doesn't go brassy when you really push air through it? Thank you

[EdFirth]

The Kings get a big dark sound. I'm very over this x/4 BS because it is an inconsistant form of measure invented by Fred Merrick at Custom Music in the 70's to sell tubas. But back to the Kings. The Conn 52, 54, 56J's are cut down Kings that come with fifth valves and can be had quite reasonably these days. The current Kings are 2341's and are fine tubas but are Bb's. I think I saw a couple Conns in the For Sale section here. Good luck. Ed PS the 1241 was the model before the 2341. Both detatchable bells the difference being the ist valve is tunable from the top and the 3rd valve has the extra loop taken out on the newer one. The current 2341 came about in 2000 and has a shorter bell with a wider throat as well as a few nice slide wrap tweaks. The Conns are this horn cut down with three different bells available. 52J-18 in., 54J- 19 in., 56J- 20 in.OK, that's all

[bort]

What do you play right now? A Willson, if I remember correctly?

A Miraphone 1291/1292 might be something to try out. Very open, easy to play, and more like a slightly bigger 4/4 than anything else. The horn is only 36 inches tall, so it's compact. Not too heavy either.

[Lew]

It seems to me that there are plenty of 4/4 sized CC tubas that would fit the bill without going to the trouble of cutting down a BBb. I don't think that a King 1241 would meet your criteria anyway. They were relatively large, detachable bell tubas, unless, as someone mentioned, you were referring to the current one piece version of the 2341. If you were really interested in one of them it would make sense to look for a Conn 52/54/56J, which are essentially the same horn in CC rather than trying to cut a BBb. In addition there are other small horns that would probably fit the bill, such as the Miraphone 184, or a Cerveny Piggy.

[bort]

Oh yeah, the Getzen would be nice. Maybe a MW 2155 could work too, though you don't see them around much anymore.

[Steve Marcus]

As a short person, I've been confortable playing larger horns with the BBC tuba stand. Its cradle can be set low enough to enable a short person to handle a 6/4 horn (unless there are other ergonomic issues such as a leadpipe installed at an uncomfortable angle, etc.).

Thanks to advice from Roger L., Gene P., and others (not to mention David F.), I use the BBC stand all of the time now--even with my bass tuba.

[MartyNeilan]

A) Get the leadpipe lowered
B) Get a tuba stand (DEG, Baltimore Brass, K&M, etc) to lower the bottom bow of the tuba below the chair.
C) Sit on a cushion and have the bottom bow of the tuba directly on the chair.

5'7" Marty, who has done all of the above in the past.

[scottw]

I'll second the playing stand, especially the BB stand, which is the very best of the 3 I've tried [DEG,K&M,BB]. I am 5'10", but I found that it is so much easier than fighting for a corner of the chair to rest it, or, worse, resting it on my lap for hours on end. Sit forward and you have all the connection you could want with the horn.

[TYA]

I do play a Willson or something like it the Kurath and it is just too tall. If i got the 1241 and just played it in BBb do you guys think it would last me until I graduate from college and still lead me into my professional years for a little while? BTW my high it 5'3 just in case anyone was wondering.

[J.c. Sherman]

You want Huge sound with a not-huge tuba. Would you like your dry water on the side?

Joking asside, The 188 has a reasonable stature and a broad, flexible sound and it's one of the most ergonomic instrument ever made. I'd look at that. It has a compact body with a nice "stack" and you can get some good meat out of it!

J.c.S.

[TYA]

You want Huge sound with a not-huge tuba. Would you like your dry water on the side?

Joking asside, The 188 has a reasonable stature and a broad, flexible sound and it's one of the most ergonomic instrument ever made. I'd look at that. It has a compact body with a nice "stack" and you can get some good meat out of it!

J.c.S.

I know it sounds ridiculous but i don't think it's impossible. I agree with you on looking at the 188's but I haven't really seen any used ones around.Do they make 5/4 tubas that are more wider instead of being tall.

[MartyNeilan]

Do they make 5/4 tubas that are more wider instead of being tall.

You may want to consider the new Mirafone 1293. Also, many of the older "American" tubas were shorter but wider than their Eurpoean counterparts. Here is a picture of my 1920's Conn - much wider than a comparably sized German horn, but also considerably shorter.

[TYA]

Thank you that's why I was asking about the king tubas. They seem manageable in size for me and all the videos I've seen or Mr. Bill Bell he has a small king tuba with him and correct me if I'm wrong but he never had a huge tuba but his sound was massive.

[Rick Denney]

Thank you that's why I was asking about the king tubas. They seem manageable in size for me and all the videos I've seen or Mr. Bill Bell he has a small king tuba with him and correct me if I'm wrong but he never had a huge tuba but his sound was massive.

The Bell King is most similar to the modern Meinl-Weston Model 37. The 1241 is much taller with a bigger bell--something like 41 or 42 inches tall and with a 22" bell. The modern 2341 is only 36" tall with a 20" bell. King has not made an instrument like the one Bell used since Bell's days.

Also, remember that Bill Bell was himself quite vast, and would make just about any tuba seem small in his hands.

The Miraphone 188 is as tall as the King but much less top-heavy. Every time I've played a large Willson, I've felt it was profoundly top-heavy, even compared to my profoundly front-heavy and very large Holton 345.

Rick "thinking a few trips to the weight room might help, too" Denney

[TYA]

Thank you that's why I was asking about the king tubas. They seem manageable in size for me and all the videos I've seen or Mr. Bill Bell he has a small king tuba with him and correct me if I'm wrong but he never had a huge tuba but his sound was massive.

The Bell King is most similar to the modern Meinl-Weston Model 37. The 1241 is much taller with a bigger bell--something like 41 or 42 inches tall and with a 22" bell. The modern 2341 is only 36" tall with a 20" bell. King has not made an instrument like the one Bell used since Bell's days.

Also, remember that Bill Bell was himself quite vast, and would make just about any tuba seem small in his hands.

The Miraphone 188 is as tall as the King but much less top-heavy. Every time I've played a large Willson, I've felt it was profoundly top-heavy, even compared to my profoundly front-heavy and very large Holton 345.

Rick "thinking a few trips to the weight room might help, too" Denney

So does this mean the King 1241BBb can produce the same or larger sound as the Willson 3050CC?

[Lew]

So does this mean the King 1241BBb can produce the same or larger sound as the Willson 3050CC?

I have never liked the sound of the Willson 3100s I have played, which I believe are the BBb version of the 3050. Ergonomically they are also some of the least comfortable horns I have ever tried to play. They feel too large for me and I am 6'5" and 235lbs. I think that you can get as large a sound from King 1241s (or 2341s), but you could also get as large a sound from any number of other tubas smaller than either of these. Also, large sound does not necessarily mean good sound. The Kings have a much smaller bore which can make it easier to overblow and get very blatty on them if you are not careful. It sounds to me like you need to go somewhere where they have a lot of tubas and play as many as possible before deciding what the best direction for you would be. The Army Band Tuba conference is one place where you can find just about every new model of tuba available.

[Rick Denney]

So does this mean the King 1241BBb can produce the same or larger sound as the Willson 3050CC?

It's you who produces the sound, not the tuba. A 3050 is a large tuba, and with the right horse blowing it, will rock the earth. A 1241 can be beautifully resonant and sound bigger than it is, but if you blow it the same way you'd have to blow a 3050, you might not like the result. They are very different instruments. The 3050 (and 3100) maintains a lot of detachment from the player, and you must have a strong sense of what's happening out front. A good 1241 feels far more intimate.

The 1241's I've played have been more consistently good than the later 2341's with the detachable bell. The newer 2341 is better than either, in my opinion. But I have compared a 2341 (new style) with my Holton, and there is no comparison in depth and breadth of tone. The 2341 plays much larger than it is, but it's still a smallish 4/4 tuba instead of a 6/4 BAT in the grand orchestral style. At some point, size does matter.

The 3050 was the go-to instrument for quite a few orchestra pros, though I think many of them complained that it was a lot of work to play. Many have switched to other instruments, but probably not to smaller instruments.

Rick "no free lunch" Denney

[k001k47]

The Miraphone Bruckner CC is a tightly wrapped smallish 5/4 CC; you should play test one.

[skeath]

Contact Sam Gnagey. His "Frankentubas" are King valve bodies cut to CC, with a better bell, and are exactly what you are asking for, in ergonomics and sound. They are compact, free-blowing, have superior intonation, and a big, American sound that will shame a lot of more expensive German tubas.

[UTSAtuba]

...and a big, American sound that will shame a lot of more expensive German tubas.

SHAME THEM!!!