Jarrad-Bittner wrote:Delta will no longer allow people to buy a seat for instruments.
The next FAA re-authorization might have some language that supports instrument carry-on. Following is (according to an AFM site) the relevant Senate language in that bill, S.1447. The American Federation of Musicians has been lobbying for it - cf. http://www.afm.org/departments/legislat ... -airplanes
US Senate wrote:It is a sense of the House of Representatives that (1) the Under Secretary of Transportation for Security should develop security procedures to allow passengers transporting a musical instrument on a flight of an air carrier to transport the instrument in the passenger cabin of the aircraft, notwithstanding any size or other restriction on carry-on baggage but subject to such other reasonable terms and conditions as may be established by the Under Secretary or the air carrier, including imposing additional charges by the air carrier.
(I'm not sure this really address the question at all, though - it appears to be purely about security, which is I think not the issue here.)
Jarrad-Bittner wrote:Delta will no longer allow people to buy a seat for instruments.
The next FAA re-authorization might have some language that supports instrument carry-on. Following is (according to an AFM site) the relevant Senate language in that bill, S.1447. The American Federation of Musicians has been lobbying for it - cf. http://www.afm.org/departments/legislat ... -airplanes
US Senate wrote:It is a sense of the House of Representatives that (1) the Under Secretary of Transportation for Security should develop security procedures to allow passengers transporting a musical instrument on a flight of an air carrier to transport the instrument in the passenger cabin of the aircraft, notwithstanding any size or other restriction on carry-on baggage but subject to such other reasonable terms and conditions as may be established by the Under Secretary or the air carrier, including imposing additional charges by the air carrier.
How can they mandate carry-on "notwithstanding any size ... restriction"? Will I be able to carry on my baby-grand piano?
(I'm not sure this really address the question at all, though - it appears to be purely about security, which is I think not the issue here.)
sloan wrote:
How can they mandate carry-on "notwithstanding any size ... restriction"? Will I be able to carry on my baby-grand piano?
The fellow musician who brought this to my attention was under the impression that you'd be able to bring it on board, if it fits in the overhead compartment. I forget the instrument had in mind, banjo or something. This, despite the fact that the banjo case probably wouldn't fit into the carry-on test bin - musical instruments are excepted from that test. (As they are on Amtrak - if you send a box of books or something via Amtrak, it can't be longer than 30" or something like that in its longest dimension, but you can ship a tuba in a much larger box.) Or, for a larger instrument, if you bought a seat, then you can carry it on and strap it in. The FAA's ruies probably won't require an airline to accept stuff that doesn't fit anywhere.
For some reason I can't think of a reason to do it that justifies the cost. After spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on preparations, you still might show up on the day of an extra security lock down, or a cranky captain, etc.
Touring musicians get a lot of good use out of busses.
Having flown alot like the other folks who have responded, I'll add my two cents. Check before you go on the airlines regulations. Be aware that every agent does not know these regulations and may need your "assistance" to find out how to charge you correctly. Do your homework in advance of arriving at the gate.
On a recent trip to ITEC (Cincinnati), I was charged one rate from Jacksonville and one rate from Cincinnati. The rate from Cincinnati was by far cheaper.
Most tuba cases are overweight and oversize by most airline companies guidelines. It may well be cheaper to box your horn and air freight it to Vienna.
Have you considered renting a horn from a member of the Vienna Phil or the school you will attend? I know you would like to have your own axe there, but it might save a lot or aggravation.
Good luck -- I hope you get to go to Vienna. Make sure to visit the Musikverein and Staat Opera. Standing tickets to see the Phil and opera are 5 euros or less!
I have had much more damage done to horns from traveling in the car compared to airplane. It's not like you know when you might have a car accident but you can almost guarantee it will happen at some point in your life. Last I heard, in Chicago, the average driver will have an accident about once every seven years.
Second,
I cannot stress this enough.
PAY ALL THE FEES!
I recently had a horn get some minor damage on a flight. The first thing the people at the baggage office (at the airport) did was to check and see that I had paid my $250 over-size and over-weight fees. Once that was established and the condition of the horn before the flight was proven I had no trouble getting compensated.
I'm always surprised when a new flying with a tuba thread comes up and most of the responses center around either buying a seat or using an MTS case.
I can see trying to get by with an MTS but would I try it...heck no!
But it's the "buy a seat" responses that I'm the most taken with. So far I've only ever read one post (in this thread, actually) about how buying a seat didn't work out and the owner was forced to gate check the instrument which resulted in some damage. What I can't believe is that out of all of the people that suggest buying an extra seat, this is the only person that has done so recently and the only person that's said anything about it on tubenet.
So, here's a challenge to everyone that says to buy a seat for the tuba...
Did YOU ever actually do it or are you just talking about it?
When? (and don't tell me you did it once in 1988...I'm wondering about having done this in the post 9/11 airline world).
Did it all work out as intended?
What was YOUR backup plan (since your tuba would obviously be in a gig bag) if they refused to allow it on the plane even though you had purchased a ticket?
And, please...don't tell me about the cello player you know that does this. I work for a major orchestra and arrange this for guests artists all the time. It is a PITA for me to set up and a PITA for them when they get to the airport. There have been some close calls for some BIG name cello players...believe me. I want to know if YOU have done this for a tuba in a gig bag.
Last edited by Tom on Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have flown with my tuba next to me (as well as, eh, under me...in the hold). At least one of the times it was KLM. The times I flew with the tuba next to me they were very well paid jazz tours and I was playing on one of those tiny Yamaha 621's.
After 9/11 it wasn't allowed any more. They said that it had nothing to do with security and everything to do with safety. The idea is that during an emergency situation one must be able to safely walk, run, or climb around this hard obstacle. So the tuba HAS to be seat belted into the seat and NOT hanging over the seat and/or touching the floor. Furthermore, it can't be sticking up too high, and definitely not bell up.
Now every airline is different, and its quite possible that an orchestra can work something out what an individual cannot. I'd say, if your gonna try and buy an extra seat, sat its an euphonium. They have no idea what the difference is, but tuba sounds BIG!
If possible, leave your #1 tuba at home and bring your #2 or #3. Renting or borrowing a horn is for some kinds of work also possible.
Just wanted to give a mini update on the situation.
I am officially spending the Spring '11 semester in Vienna studying music (yay!)
I have come up with a plan that I think will be for the best. I am going to use my MTS case, and pack the hell out of it (as someone suggested they did with their MW Baer). Also, since there are no direct flights from Rochester, NY to Vienna, I am considering driving down to Washington, DC (since it isn't that far anyway) and catching a direct flight (that will save me a couple of hundred of $$$ anyways.) That way, there will be less handling of the tuba and therefore less of a chance of it getting damaged, I hope!
Rochester2013 wrote:Just wanted to give a mini update on the situation.
I am officially spending the Spring '11 semester in Vienna studying music (yay!)
I have come up with a plan that I think will be for the best. I am going to use my MTS case, and pack the hell out of it (as someone suggested they did with their MW Baer). Also, since there are no direct flights from Rochester, NY to Vienna, I am considering driving down to Washington, DC (since it isn't that far anyway) and catching a direct flight (that will save me a couple of hundred of $$$ anyways.) That way, there will be less handling of the tuba and therefore less of a chance of it getting damaged, I hope!
You are going for a semester - not for the weekend. Consider a separate shipping method. There's no reason the tuba has to fly on the same plane you do.
Rochester2013 wrote:Just wanted to give a mini update on the situation.
I am officially spending the Spring '11 semester in Vienna studying music (yay!)
I have come up with a plan that I think will be for the best. I am going to use my MTS case, and pack the hell out of it (as someone suggested they did with their MW Baer). Also, since there are no direct flights from Rochester, NY to Vienna, I am considering driving down to Washington, DC (since it isn't that far anyway) and catching a direct flight (that will save me a couple of hundred of $$$ anyways.) That way, there will be less handling of the tuba and therefore less of a chance of it getting damaged, I hope!
You are going for a semester - not for the weekend. Consider a separate shipping method. There's no reason the tuba has to fly on the same plane you do.
I considered this... However, I was told by my Study Abroad Provider (IES Abroad): 'Do not ship
your laptop, camera, musical instruments, or other expensive items—
this incurs exorbitant customs charges and may take the length of the semester
to clear customs. Carry them with you on the plane.'
I've just had a HB 50 written off due to damage, and it was a domestic flight with the instrument traveling in the hold in a dedicated flight case, and the damage resulted from the security inspection. I've flown enough that I'm a points upgraded member of 3 separate programs, and the biggest danger is at the security inspection and the re-pack of the instrument after. I noticed some-one mentioned accompanying the instrument to the inspection, and that advice is worth its weight in gold. Do everything they say, and don't cause any arguments and the security types are usually quite friendly, and if you're in their presence they usually swab for the chemical tests, and do a brief visual inspection, and you're back on your way.
As for the airline, if you haven't booked yet many different ones have different policies, for example flying to Japan is cheaper to connect through Singapore on their national carrier than to fly JAL. United to Australia is cheaper than their national carrier. Frequent flyer programs can also save you big money. It might cost $50 dollars to join the program that gives you a higher baggage allowance, as opposed to paying $400 for an instrument that is both oversize, and overweight. If you're feeling adventurous, you can fly to many of the European capitals and then train the rest of your journey.
I truly believe that it comes down to how you interact with the staff and the security personnel, and the one thing you want to avoid is getting stuck between the TSA and the airline. The TSA is responsible for nothing and answers to no-one (unless you have a relative in congress), and they also give the airline the ability to deny everything.
Well the stories are just getting scarier and scarier. I wanted to add coals to the fire by telling you the story about when I arrived in Berlin and my tuba.....didn't! But better to get on to solutions.
Apparently your willing to lay down some bucks and/or effort to make this work. If you ask me, its only a semester. (scrap the "buy a new one" idea).
But you might consider;
1. Borrowing. Many schools have a tuba to lend out. Mine did, at both schools were I studied. Why not ask if/what they have and what it might cost (if anything).
2. Renting. Now here I have no idea what that might cost. But its always possible that it'll be cheeper than an extra ticket (a price you said you were willing to pay). Again, maybe the school can help you out in this (discount?).
Whatever you do, contact the school and the person you'll be studying with. Your teacher might even have something for you. Again, mine did at both schools were I studied. Try it. If it doesn't work out, no harm done. On the other hand, it could work out rather nicely. Nothing like having baggage space over on the plane....for baggage!
If you do decide to fly, make sure you have good insurance cover. The airlines have got limits they impose on how much they will compensate you for damage, and 99% of travel insurance is a waste of time and money. Get proper instrument insurance, and make sure it covers you for an extended stay abroad. I've flown with tubas quite a bit, and in the majority of cases nothing untoward will happen, but when it does, you can bet the airlines and travel insurance companies will back out of compensating you. Has happened to me every single time!
