Symphony Fantastique Question

[luke_hollis]

There are 2 tuba parts for the piece. In some orchestras, they play a Euph with a tuba. Looking over the parts, all the good stuff and famous excerpts are in the first part and the second part is mainly supporting.

It is my experience that the standard is to play part I (with all the good excerpts) on tuba and the second supporting part on Euph. Can anyone comment on this?

[Tom]

It is my experience that the standard is to play part I (with all the good excerpts) on tuba and the second supporting part on Euph. Can anyone comment on this?

I've never seen (or heard live) anything other than 2 tubas on Symphonie fantastique.

Who/where did you see it done on euphonium?

[luke_hollis]

I was told the Chicago Symphony.

[bort]

Someone posted a link to an old video clip on YouTube here a while back... it had 1 F tuba and 1 bell-front Euph.

[windshieldbug]

I can comment.

When this was written, these were ophicleide parts.
Common practice at the time was to use a pair, one in C and one in Bb to make up for the questionable notes on either one (the keying would put them a step apart, so that an "iffy" note on one would be solid on the other). Therefor, Berlioz being a master of orchestration, the parts were written to compliment and support each other.

The "Dies Irae" part was written for these instruments so that the sound/tone would remind one of the serpents used for the bass in churches.

I have performed this on C ophicleide with Jay Krush of the Chestnut Brass playing Bb ophicleide.

Modern tubists more often tend to use whatever instruments makes them feel most comfortable on the part.
One often sees euphonium or F tuba on the first part and F or bass tuba on the second.
Remember, for the professional tuba player, the requirement is not just to be able to play the part in rehearsal, but to be able to play it accurately and sound good EVERY time it is performed.

[Wyvern]

I have never see this played with euphonium. It is usually played by either two bass tubas (F, or Eb) or a bass and contrabass tuba (e.g. F on tuba 1 and CC on tuba 2).

Although originally written for ophicleide, did not Berlioz change the instrumentation to tubas later when he heard in Berlin and was so impressed by their tone?

[Mark]

I've seen several of the best US orchestras play this and I have never seen a euphonium.

[swillafew]

I think the conductor should be the one to assign these things. If your group is playing this, learn the part on your instrument and do your best.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I think the conductor should be the one to assign these things.

I think we can all agree, that the LAST person you want to ask, is the conductor!
In the "Young People's Concerts" that Leonard Bernstein did with the NY Phil, so many years ago, Mr. Bell played the 2nd part on a tuba of some sort, and an unnamed colleague played the 1st part on a bell front baritone/euphonium.

Having said that, the coolest recorded performance of the "Dies Irae", that I have seen, was a video that Roger Norrington did with a French original instrument ensemble, where one person played a serpent, and the other, an ophicleide. Very spooky sound!

I'm sorry to report, that I liked it better than tubas!

[luke_hollis]

I am not happy about the prospect of giving up the juicy 1st part to a Euph (no offense to Euph players).

[jeopardymaster]

Seems to me more likely to be covered by one lone tubist instead, given the financial state of most orchestras these days. Not much is lost, note-wise. Damn it.

[UDELBR]

Lately I've been doing the first part on a French tuba (more or less a C euphonium) and the 2nd player uses either euphonium or F tuba.

[Roger Lewis]

I saw the Boston Symphony do this back in the Chester Schmitz days. Mr. Schmitz started out playing an F tuba and the 2nd payer was using a large CC as I recall. At a point in the last movement, Mr. Schmitz switched to a euphonium and the 2nd player switched from a big CC tuba to an F and they rocked the house on the last page or so.

It was very impressive.

What made this work is Mr. Schmitz's incredible skill on euphonium. I believe that more of us should be able to double on euphonium so that we can use these other colors of sound to our advantage in what we play. I'm not a Ben Pierce, but I can handle my own on euphonium if I need to.

Just my $0.02.

Roger

[bububassboner]

I was told the Chicago Symphony.

This is true. I do have (somewhere) a recording of this being done with Mr. Mulcahy playing first on euphonium and Mr. Pokorny on CC playing much of the second part down an octave. The story I was told for this was that the symphony was on tour with this piece and instead of hiring another tuba player for the tour they just had Mr. Mulcahy play it on tenor tuba. When I can find the CD I'll post the CD name.

[bbocaner]

It doesn't sound right on bass (or contrabass) tuba. It's just totally the wrong sound. Two euphoniums would be ideal if you're not going to do ophicliedes. Too often what orchestras do is dictated by what is most cost effective or convenient for them to achieve.

[tclements]

I lke playing the first part on F, and have the second part played on CC. I would NEVER leave it up to a conductor. Every time I have done it, I let the 2nd tuba player play whatever he wants. As long as it sounds good, who the heck cares what instrument gets played.

[ZNC Dandy]

I was told the Chicago Symphony.

This is true. I do have (somewhere) a recording of this being done with Mr. Mulcahy playing first on euphonium and Mr. Pokorny on CC playing much of the second part down an octave. The story I was told for this was that the symphony was on tour with this piece and instead of hiring another tuba player for the tour they just had Mr. Mulcahy play it on tenor tuba. When I can find the CD I'll post the CD name.

This is the recording...
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/alb ... _id=171777" target="_blank
The version of Les Preludes is quite good...

[luke_hollis]

To be clear, when folks say the first part on Euph and second on tuba, you mean the all juicy parts with the famous excerpts on euph and the lightweight second part on tuba?

[Kevin Hendrick]

To be clear, when folks say the first part on Euph and second on tuba, you mean the all juicy parts with the famous excerpts on euph and the lightweight second part on tuba?

Exactly.

[bbocaner]

Anyone ever tried it on two cimbasso? It sounds ridiculous at first, but the timbre would actually be a pretty good fit and you don't have the problem of the tuba players getting pissed that their gig is going to euphonium players. I think it'd work pretty well!