college majors

[tubamage17]

thank you guys, this helps a lot. it sounds as if Ed would be the way to go, but i will not discredit sloan's novel. lol, thank you very much.

[bearphonium]

I occasionally get asked about "the best way to get there" with respect to my profession: Law Enforcement. One of my favorite stories was from a young man that I met at a party that I got invited to by the neighbors (read: 150 mostly drunk kids) who, with a core of other folks, were drinking...soda only. His dream was to be an FBI agent. His question: Should I join the army right now, out of high school and become an MP, or take this football scholarship that Linfield (pretty good private Division II school) was offering.

I was able to tell him that the FBI wanted Army officers, not EM, and that the Army would be a good route if he were going to try for an appointment to West Point as part of his career, and pretty much required a college degree for all their agents. He then asked what he should major in. My reply: What you are interested in. What you will study, what will motivate you, and what excites you. And if you don't have "that one thing" yet, work to find it. Pretty much what Sloan said, only not nearly so eloquently.

Find that one thing that lights your way. If it is music performance then go. If you discover a passion for English Lit, or biochemestry, or psychology or biology, then go there. If all you want to do is perform, then do that. Get gigs. Join groups. Start a band. Enjoy your life!

Ally"sheriffin' by day, tuba playing by night"House

[alfredr]

Another point I would like to make is that graduating in a major and having a degree doesn't necessarily limit what you can do after college either. Many successful people are successful in fields that are only marginally (if at all) related to their majors. And some of us are only marginally successful in fields marginally related to our majors. But we're happy.

alfredr (under-achiever)

[Michael Bush]

Except for people for whom college is glorified vocational school (accountants, engineers, architects, etc.) the beginning of your junior year is plenty of time to declare a major. Just forget about a major for now.

Go to the best college you can get admitted to and start exploring.

[opus37]

Most colleges start you out in either a liberal arts or science curriculum. Basically, the first two years are spent taking foundation courses. The last two years are the ones the define your major. So the advice to take a broad spectrum of classes and see what you like is really already programmed in. If you like performing, join the band. Your major should be what you like doing but you also have to eat, pay rent and someday raise a family. Flipping burgers gets old rather fast. Since you are considering an education degree, you have to decide if you like teaching. Consider volunteering in a "help with homework" program. Education is education. You might really like music, but the principles to teach music are the same for teaching history. If you really are considering education, you will need to also be able to coach something too. If you want to perform in Vegas, how about hotel management. You have a marketable skill and you are in the place where the performers are hired.

[Rick Denney]

Dr. Sloan discredits engineering education as job training, but it isn't really so. All regular universities have broad requirements for getting any degree. When you show up for your freshman year, you'll still have to take language, math, science, and history. Logic is good--not necessarily from the perspective of computers. Philosophy is usually a required topic. Even the most technical degrees require quite a bit of what colleges call liberal arts as part of their degree programs. And you'll still be studying those subjects for at least the first two years of any college program, even in state schools such as the one where Dr. Sloan teachers and not in the Ivy League school that Dr. Sloan attended. If you change majors after two years, you won't lose that much even if you make a radical change.

If you have a passion, follow it. But follow it broadly, with the understanding that whatever you end up doing, you'll do it better and enjoy it more from the perspective of being broadly educated. I have had pretty good success as an engineer, but mainly because, unlike most engineers, I can write and speak with reasonable competence. That competence is built on a foundation of wide reading and lots of practice writing. A lot of people go into engineering because their math skills exceed their language skills, and it's a way to avoid having to overcome that weakness. And a lot of people study education because they are afraid they won't be good enough to do anything else (this is not the same as those who really want to be teachers). Don't take the easy way out. Study broadly, making sure to include those topics where you feel weak. No musician should be unfamiliar with that strategy.

Time spent in the wrong major is not time wasted. The time I spent pursuing architecture as a major for three years helps the way I think as an engineer, and the art training it involved has given me training to enjoy many things of beauty around me. The extra couple of years in college and the extra money that it cost is of no consequence 35 years later.

So, even if you choose a major that is aimed at a particular profession, because it is required for licensing, don't let that keep you from being as broadly educated as possible. At one time, even those who worked in skilled crafts could be highly educated, even if they had to do their own studying. Knowledge is much easier to obtain now.

One problem with Dr. Sloan's advice is that many people may never find that subject that motivates them 24/7, or that motivation may change often enough to overcome an educational process. And not every activity finds a market, no matter how good they become. 10,000 hours may not be enough. For example, if what motivates you 24/7 is riding horses, or making suits of armor, or cataloging the history of tubas, you may have a hard time feeding yourself even after 10,000 hours of devoted skill-building.

But most people can learn to like what they do, as part of a balanced life, if they spend 10,000 hours learning to do it. Another way to express that is that you should be able to learn to enjoy doing something with 10,000 hours of practice. That 10,000-hour period is the test of compatibility between you and the work, but it is also a period where the work conditions you to enjoyment, if you decide to enjoy it. That period starts when you first set the goal of pursuing that calling, but you may have to pick something your are merely good at and set the goal without feeling the calling.

A parting thought: Many people in ages past had no choice of the work that they did. They were born into a family that worked in the local mill, or their parents pawned them off to be apprenticed at age seven, or they spent their days tilling their own fields. We can say that they didn't know any better, and perhaps that is the case. But many successful lives were lived in such situations, because those who lived them decided to be happy doing so. Enjoy the fact that you have choices, but don't let the lack of a clear calling paralyze you.

Rick "recommending the main goal going into college as becoming broadly educated" Denney

[bort]

Too many words, I didn't bother reading the above posts... but this might still be relevant:

Perhaps even as much as "which major," consider "which school?"

My school was just outside of DC. My engineering and computer science friends had no trouble finding jobs (and often multiple offers) from government agencies and contractors. Even my music ed. friends were almost always immediately placed in a school as soon as they wanted to be there. The jobs are there. Are you where the jobs are?

Now, if you want to be a performer, get as close as you can to a big city. You'll have far more opportunities in a big city.

[Stefan]

I have to agree with Mr. Mojo when he says that you need to know "exactly" what you are getting into. There's a lot of people who WANT to play for a living, but very few people who know how to get there. I am one of the many who thought thet knew what they were getting into, but with hindsite being 20/20, I really didn't. I switched to being an ed major early on with the idea that I could continue practicing and win a gig. Guess what I am doing now...

Actually, I don't know if it's possible to know exactly what you are getting into until you get into it. All I can say is that if you want to perform, than practice like it's the only thing you care about and be open to absolutely any playing situation. Learn about marketing and create work for yourself. Don't count on being one of the elite few who get a full time gig unless you practice and perform currently like the elite few (at your level)

Stefan

[Stefan]

But I do have to say that if you want to perform and you truly know what it takes - be a performance major and let no stone go unturned. And know that you are taking a gamble but that you are going to try to shift the odds closer to you.

Stefan

[Rick Denney]

What I DO see missing in modern society is a very large percentage of people who commit to pursuing ONE discipline with full vigor to see JUST HOW GOOD they can become at doing something. I believe pushing one's limits in a single discipline is just about as instructive (as far as "life lessons" as concerned) as anything. Many modern-day parents seem believe the opposite is true and want to walk their children through an endless buffet of disciplines without (really) allowing/encouraging them to sink their teeth very far into any of them.

The problem, of course, is "which discipline". It make take a little general exploration to find it. And it may never come, at which point one will still have to strive for excellence at an activity that they don't really think about 24/7.

College (there is a correct spelling for this word, by the way) is not the end of education, of course. But for people going to college anyway, they might as well make it as broad an experience as it can be to get the most out of it. What I learned in college is no more than a small fraction of what I know now, either generally or in my professional area. But the freedom I had in college to really explore topics set the stage and built the skills for addressing (and expressing) curiosity later in life.

I have no argument with you on the subject of pursuing excellence. But it is orthogonal to what Dr. Sloan and I have said. Your suggestion that excellence cannot be pursued in college speaks only of those who would likely not pursue excellence in any setting. And those brought up to pursue excellence (assuming they decide to do it) can do so in college as well as anywhere else, and college provide many opportunities for those so motivated that are difficult to access in other settings.

Or, I could steal Dr. Sloan's thunder and write that the above paragraph can be read in 20 seconds...

Rick "who thought Joe was only motivated by remunerative possibilities" Denney

[SousaSaver]

Responding to Bloke's above post...
(in my view) can result in millions of jackasses who can speak extemporaneously (for about 20 seconds) on quite a few topics - as long as their extemporaneous comments completely reflect the viewpoints of their past professors and/or textbooks.

I couldn't disagree with this more. College taught me how to do research, critical thinking and how to make decisions on my own, not blindly follow items in text books or a professors point of view.

Many modern-day parents seem believe the opposite is true and want to walk their children through an endless buffet of disciplines without (really) allowing/encouraging them to sink their teeth very far into any of them.

...but I couldn't agree with this more. I agree wholeheartedly with this. Not enough parents find out what their children might have a talent for and push them toward it.