Bill Bell’s F Tuba

[J.c. Sherman]

I’ve marveled at Photos of Bill Bell and his custom King F tuba for years. I’ve seen a few other low-res photos of it and heard some information on this forum about it, usually accompanied with disapproval of its playability by modern standards.

Myself, I’ve played and performed on several “stuffy” tubas that suited my tastes for certain pieces. Some of you may have seen my near-microscopic King Eb recording bell tuba which has served very well for “The American Brass Band Journal” and the occasional Dixieland trio with Banjo and clarinet. “Stuffy” is an understatement, but “charming” and “well suited” also work well – it’s a nice little tuba!

SO… I’ve decided to make a Bill Bell F. I’ve secured a King “small” Eb tuba from the period, which from everything I’ve seen is the basis for this F. So I’m starting a thread as a clearinghouse for information about this tuba. Anything anyone can offer, pictures, specs, including and especially about or from the previous or current owner(s) of the instrument (if they are willing to have the instrument inspected and measured, or provide measurements, or allow me to try it as well). I’m going to make this happen, not tomorrow, but soon. And it could be fun thread anyway!

Let the exchange begin!

J.c.S.

[Chris Olka]

I believe the owner of the original horn is a tuba collector/all around great guy by the name of Mike Lynch in Texas. He has a vast collection of tubas in a house he had built with a wing called the 'tubatorium'. No kidding. Anyway, I don't have recent contact info for him but maybe someone here does. He would be the first guy I would try and get info from.

Hope that helps some.
Best,
Chris Olka
Seattle Symphony
Seattle Opera

[Chris Olka]

As an aside, one of my favorite tubists around is a guy named Ed Firth who occasionally posts on here and had a long career in New Orleans and Walt Disney among other gigs and his main axe the whole time was and probably still is a "stuffy" King 2341 BBb. This guy is 6'2" and built like a tank turret and when he plays it sounds anything but stuffy. A whole lot of great playing goes on with these horns.
Chris Olka
Seattle Symphony
Seattle Opera

[bisontuba]

HI-
I'll PM email you Mike Lynch's email.
mark

[Bob Kolada]

Here's an interesting little flier-
http://www.hnwhite.com/King/Low%20Brass ... 0Large.jpg

I always thought my King was the small one. But it doesn't match the specs and actually doesn't look like either (the valve set is kind of annoyingly high on the horn)!

[toobaa]

So you're going to have to chop off some percentage of the overall length, right? When you measure that amount -- assuming you can't steal it from all straight tubing -- how does that work? Would you guesstimate "down the middle" of the pipe or can you measure the outside of the curve and the inside and average the two? And you would have to take that same percentage off of each valve slide also to maintain tuning?

It sounds like an interesting project to do. Keep us posted.

[J.c. Sherman]

Actually, that's close.

The King Small Eb tubas of the period were extremely small... so much so that there is an almost disturbingly larger proportion of them which is cylindrical. The taper of the leadpipe is minimal, and the more remains the same through the valves, main tuning slide, and for a considerable distance after that. Basically, removing a whole tone of cylindrical plumbing from this model is a breeze.

From the grainy photo's I have, I've concluded that the Bell F is a modification of this bugle. But I know that they made at least one 4-valve front-action section (for a custom Euph in the Cleveland area) with a .578 bore. Which gives me pause that I might not be right assuming that the Bell F has a ~.625 valve section like the Eb does. So I need to figure that out, as well as if the bell diameter is narrower (which I doubt), and other minor details, like receiver size, etc.

Critically, I need the bell diameter, bore size, receiver size, and - hopefully - some better pics from which I can extrapolate the rest of the design (Texas is a bit of a commute from Cleveland : )

I'll be getting on the horn to the current horn's owner, but if anyone wants to share stories, their own photos, anecdotes, etc. (especially from his students and any who have tried the instrument), that would be great; I'll keep everyone up to date on the progress.

J.c.S.

[Bob Sacchi]

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[Bob Sacchi]

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[J.c. Sherman]

Bloke, you are consistent!

Looking again at the photos, I was about to lean to the "bigger than .625" school," but now I'm getting worried... Was Bell a big guy? I'm wondering if the overall instrument is shorter than the microscopic Eb. Either way, their .625 valve sections were pretty standard equipment, and I've not seen a 21/32 King bore on anything here in Cleveland, King central... but I won't discount anything yet

Mainly, the Eb's of the small school I've seen have the looonnnngggg cylindrical section at .625... which means that if you're going to make a one-off, bending your largely cylindrical 4th bow differently can take care of a lot. But then again, you see instruments such as the King Euphonium I earlier referred too, the "double tuba" we occasionally discuss (the euph/tuba combo), the mini trumpets, saxophones, and trombones, H.N. White was obviously not above seriously good handmade instruments of unusual proportions.

'Course, if Bell was 6' 2" or more, then I can relax on the height... I think. But those pictures are actually in better fidelity than the ones of him I had, and give a little more detail.

J.c.S. (still leaning .625, but not decided until later : )

[Ken Herrick]

Bill was a "large" man all round - I can't recall his height.

Comparing the photos of the F to the catalogue drawings side by side, it looks very much like the small Eb comes closer to being the "match".


Ken (Thinking he should get Joe to pack that old bell, body and valve set in a box and ship it to me as "spare parts" )

[Mikelynch]

I'll be back at home later this week, and will be glad to take some measurements this weekend. J.C.S. feel free to give me a call or shoot me an email.

Mike

[J.c. Sherman]

Will do! Thank you Mike!

[iiipopes]

So, it's been a month or so. Howzit going?

[J.c. Sherman]

Mr. Lynch has been very, very kind and helpful in providing a wealth of information. With that information, however, has come some challenges.

As many of you know, H.N. White made some unique instruments which exhibited incredible craftsmanship. The mini trumpets, trombones, double size trumpet and others exemplify this. While I'm certain I have the right Bell and bottom bow, bore size and leadpipe, and main tuning slide, I have some problems in the inner bows which may make this project take a while. I was pretty sure the third bow would have to be made from scratch, and perhaps the 2nd (simply the same as I have but bent in a different place) but now it looks like the top bow may be too long.

Now, I could go for an acoustic match of the Bell F, and adjust the other bows accordingly, leaving the top bow I have... but otherwise I'll have to make the top bow from scratch too. Not easy work; that's a really hard bend requiring a lot of brute force and time.

Any thoughts out there as to which you would do in the same situation?

J.c. (who will be making a leadpipe too to match the one I already have)

[marzan122]

So did you figure out the bore size?????

[TYA]

Has this project ever been completed? If so how did it turn out? I bet it must be amazing

[J.c. Sherman]

Progress has been slow - paying projects go first.

I'm actually going to stick with a .625 valve set after further study. I'm also going to save myself one hand-made bow and go for as close to an accoustic copy as I can. I might change my mind, but forming and bending a top bow is a real bummer!

Most of the other parts have been identified. The leadpipe source is holding me at this point... I can make one, but I'm trying to patiently follow the 'bay for something I think would be close to or identical to the original.

Once I get one more large project out the door, I can get on to this and 3 other ver interesting projects

[toobagrowl]

...

[toobagrowl]

That's a tiny F tuba; looks like a baritone.