Besson F

[TYA]

I was just wondering does anyone know which Besson F Arnold Jacobs is using in this clip?

http://www.chisham.com/sounds/AJ_bessonF.au" target="_blank

Thak you.

[k001k47]

Something along the lines of this:




I've always wanted something like it, even though people say the intonation isn't great.

[imperialbari]

I was just wondering does anyone know which Besson F Arnold Jacobs is using in this clip?

http://www.chisham.com/sounds/AJ_bessonF.au" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Thak you.

Thanks for the link!

I own a Boosey comp F from 1923, so I would like somebody to transcribe Arnold Jacobs’ word from the recording. He speaks too fast for me to understand what he is saying.

Even if the Boosey has the exact same bore as my 1999 Eb Besson 981, the Boosey is much more compact in sound, but still very easily played way down to the 2nd pedal F. Soundwise the Boosey F fills the gap between the euphonium and the large Eb tuba.

I had experimented with the DW 4 &5 mouthpieces (my sample has a large receiver mounted), but they didn’t work for me. The original blokepiece #1 works well, but needs an embouchure in very good shape. That mouthpiece doesn’t bring out the inherent greater warmth in the 981, so there I use the blokepiece #2 with its larger backbore.

Somebody here on TN suggested playing the high F with 1st valve. Good idea. The 5th partials are better fingered like the notes an octave lower.

Klaus

[TYA]

Is it still possible to get one of these F tubas?

[imperialbari]

If somebody wants to sell, I don’t.

Klaus

[cjk]

I've always wanted something like it, even though people say the intonation isn't great.

Been there, sold that.

[Alex C]

Jacobs used two F tubas around the time of the V-W recording. A Besson F and a B&S Symphonie model. This definitely sounds like the Besson to my ears but as to the model number or name... I don't know if it had a model number. It was the Besson F tuba model, the only F tuba Besson sold in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

It is a tiny horn and the intonation is a challenge. As the recording demonstrates, you had to be up-to-date on the horn to play it in tune. I agree that the low register is quite good and overall it was as good as most Euro F tubas for sale until the 1970's.

I think the newer Besson F tubas with the Sheridan-layout must have been based on this model Besson and not cut down 983 Eb's. I haven't seen one in person, I'm just going from pictures so any first-hand info would be appreciated.

Playing the Besson F helps you to understand Bill Bell's King F tuba which is about the same size but with not as much taper increase in the big bows. These were contemporary horns and it shows how much F tubas have improved since then.

Jacobs used the B&S on the Broadcast the CSO made of Berlioz's Romeo and Juliet. He noodles around with that excerpt on this recording but it is not the one used on the recording or the broadcast. Of course, he used the Besson F on the V-W Concerto recording.

[imperialbari]

The Sheridan layout has the model #985. It hasn’t anything to do with either the small F tubas nor the 983, as it has a larger valve bore than used in any other British compensating tuba. You will find the dimensions and a lot of photo documentation via the lower link in my signature.

Klaus

[cjk]

Evidently, Walter Nirschl made at least one copy of a Besson F. Hopefully, the copy has a much improved scale.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1336" target="_blank

http://www.walternirschl.de/sites/instrumente_neu.html" target="_blank

F–Tuba, Modell MWN 1
F-Tuba, 3 Perinetventile top action, 4. Ventil linke Hand, voll kom- pensiert, kleine F-Tuba im britischen Stil mit dem richtigen F-Tuba Klang.

[TYA]

Evidently, Walter Nirschl made at least one copy of a Besson F. Hopefully, the copy has a much improved scale.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1336" target="_blank" target="_blank

http://www.walternirschl.de/sites/instrumente_neu.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

F–Tuba, Modell MWN 1
F-Tuba, 3 Perinetventile top action, 4. Ventil linke Hand, voll kom- pensiert, kleine F-Tuba im britischen Stil mit dem richtigen F-Tuba Klang.

Who is a dealer for those tubas? I know Dillon music has The CC for sale.

[Alex C]

The Sheridan layout has the model #985. It hasn’t anything to do with either the small F tubas nor the 983, as it has a larger valve bore than used in any other British compensating tuba. You will find the dimensions and a lot of photo documentation via the lower link in my signature.

Klaus

I was referring to the Sheridan layout used on the F tuba that Besson made prototypes of. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I still may not be clear.

[imperialbari]

The Sheridan layout has the model #985. It hasn’t anything to do with either the small F tubas nor the 983, as it has a larger valve bore than used in any other British compensating tuba. You will find the dimensions and a lot of photo documentation via the lower link in my signature.

Klaus

I was referring to the Sheridan layout used on the F tuba that Besson made prototypes of. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I still may not be clear.

Now you are clear, but clearly wrong.

The 985 F tuba has 4 front action compensating pistons. 0.750" bore through the first three valves and 0.790" (or so, at least it is 20mm) through the 4 valve. None of Besson’s other compensator had this large bore, so there is no reuse of valve blocks from other models.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

Besson 985.png

[tubaman1019]

I'm currently playing on one of the old besson 3+1 Fs. Nice sound but intonation takes a while to get used to. Horn is probably from the 60s-70s

[imperialbari]

I'm currently playing on one of the old besson 3+1 Fs. Nice sound but intonation takes a while to get used to. Horn is probably from the 60s-70s

I am not sure I ever saw one of the 3+1 comp F tubas from the sixties documented in photos. Mine is from1923 and is a Boosey, so it has plain valve buttons. Does your Besson have the buttons with a sloped profile?

Klaus