Thayer valve as 5th valve on tubas?

[tubatom91]

use a piston valve...eh?

[MileMarkerZero]

a rotor that is 3x the bore size (rather than the traditional "less than 2x") is going to be heavy and s-l-o-w.

How feasible would it be to manufacture some sort of reduction system to gain a mechanical advantage and minimalize the "slowness" and weight of the valve?

[cjk]

Aw c'mon, y'all just think Thayer valves *look* cool.




I am more interested in manufacturers tuning up their open bugles than bothering with new types of valves.

[J.c. Sherman]

A Thayer would not be possible on a tuba, as the largest bore size manufactured is .590 (Bass trombone rotors).

Just cuz they haven't made 'em doesn't mean they can't make 'em.

I had correspondence with Orla Ed Thayer in the early '90s about this. He said the euphonium worked well, and that he was excited about the prospect of the Thayers being made for tubas.

Actually, having talked to Barbara Thayer, his surviving wife, they still can't. Though, as they have been, they are exploring that. But they don't have the tooling for it right now. A larger bore valve would require nearly all the parts be re-tooled from housing to valve to retaining ring to...

[UDELBR]

But they don't have the tooling for it right now.

That's why they haven't been made. But you said they'd "not be possible" on a tuba. Different.

[J.c. Sherman]

But they don't have the tooling for it right now.

That's why they haven't been made. But you said they'd "not be possible" on a tuba. Different.

Wasn't trying to split hairs, per se. Barbara is getting on in years, and while her shop is still discussing it, I can't imagine that they would be able to realize a profit from the effort.

It's possible to do many things, of course, including making a thayer Cimbasso with a .810 bore... I just don't think it's probable

Someone with engineering experience, a CAD lathe and some brass tech experience could build one easily... But... who's up for that?

[SousaSaver]

The real question is "SHOULD they?"

A Thayer valve with the proper bore size on a Tuba would be ENORMOUS. Due to how it is configured, it might be close to twice the size of a typical F attachment Trombone.

This being said, you would almost have to put it between the valve block and the mouthpipe (ala Miraphone 187-5U CC Tubas), for something like a MW 2165 where the valve is on the main tuning slide, there would have to be some serious modification to make that critter fit. Just my humble opinion...

Someone with engineering experience, a CAD lathe and some brass tech experience could build one easily... But... who's up for that?

Easily? Maybe...

[tbn.al]

The Hagmann is OK, but with tubes heading in/out of two dimensions (top / side) it still has that "everything must be absolutely perfect for minimal leakage" feature.

Finally, it seems that it is being discovered (more and more) that more resistance - at least with quite a few types of tubas (rather than less) may be a good thing.

"or so sayeth the" bloke

Joe, maybe I just got lucky and got a perfect set of Hagmanns on my Besson, but they have been in daily use for 10 years with minimal maintenance (cleaned once a year and oiled once a month) and they do not leak, period. I do agree that the ergonomics might be a stretch on tuba, see the cimbasso pic.

http://hornguys.com/cimbasso.php" target="_blank" target="_blank

I don't know about the resistance thing. I don't think I would like a tuba with all Hagmanns, but it might be nice as a 5th. I'd love to play test that Cimbasso.

[Bob Kolada]

A Thayer would not be possible on a tuba, as the largest bore size manufactured is .590 (Bass trombone rotors).

Just cuz they haven't made 'em doesn't mean they can't make 'em.

What's the valve bore on the Haag contrabone? It comes with Thayer or Hagmanns (as do several other horns regarding the latter).

[J.c. Sherman]

A Thayer would not be possible on a tuba, as the largest bore size manufactured is .590 (Bass trombone rotors).

Just cuz they haven't made 'em doesn't mean they can't make 'em.

What's the valve bore on the Haag contrabone? It comes with Thayer or Hagmanns (as do several other horns regarding the latter).

The Hagemann's largest bore size is 15.5 mm (.610").

J.c.S.

[bbocaner]

Haag makes their own axial flow valve for that model -- I assume it's the same size as the largest available Hagmann.