Cut slide or add main slide rod (read on)?

[Bob Kolada]

I love my little H.N. White King Eb. I hate the super flat low D. I want to either cut down the 2nd slide so I can push in for low D (as well as possibly Gb and E in the staff) or add a main slide rod. Intonation woes are-
-that very flat D
-slightly sharp Eb in the staff
-flat F in the staff, G and Gb are pretty close
The only slide movement I do for other notes is for 123 combinations.
I usually play the horn with a Bach 18. Playing for the tuner right now with a more period-accurate mp, one of my contrabone mps, is a little better but still has that low D. It plays perfectly fine with the 18.

The horn was borderline flat when I got it so I had the very long slide crook cut down. There is enough room on both sides to fix the bad notes as well as 123 combos. However, the small side of the tuning slide was slightly loose so I had the tech who did the cut enlarge it slightly. Greased up it moves fine to tune the horn but not for individual notes. There is also the dilemma of routing a rod or as the the horn is pretty compact in the body. The best place looks to be on the small side of the main slide coming up next to the 3rd slide. With the rod I wouldn't need to mess around with the 1st valve slide anymore and could use 3 for 123 and the rod for smaller adjustments, adopting a Pat Sheridan-esque grip on the horn.

Cutting the second slide would fix that D, but it would need to be rebraced there as the current braces are right at the end. It also would only fix the open Eb in that I could play it 23 and push 2 in. If I got 2 cut down I would have the ring rotated 90 degrees so it's perpendicular to the tubing and putting a ring on the inside of the 1st slide valve crook so I can reach both through the top bow, or have a rod put on it so I can keep my hand above the bow for both slides. I rarely move 3 on this horn. 13 F and low Bb work fine with the 3rd slide tuned so that 23 is good.

Attached is a rather poor quality picture that shows the overall look and where I have the main slide.

I've considered selling the horn and getting either a Cerveny 653 or trying to find a Rusk York F, but I love the sound, playability, coolness, and it's much cheaper than changing horns.

Thoughts?

[Bob Kolada]

After typing that all out, I think a rod coming up next to the 3rd slide would be the best bet. The bracing on the 3rd valve tubing would protect it and it could come straight up from the small side of the main slide. My left thumb would slip through a loop at the top. I could probably even try this at home with a trombone slide cleaning rod.

Below is my Pat-grip. Please ignore my lime green shorts (they fit and were cheap!).

[SousaSaver]

I wouldn't use a trombone cleaning rod to do this.

If I were you, I would go to the hardware store and get some brass rod stock to try this out. Does the slide fit well enough that it moves with little resistance? This is important when thinking about adjusting rods.

[Bob Kolada]

The slide moves somewhat easily now but not really fast enough for real world playing. The inners have some odd wear, probably from being almost 100 years old. The outers look fine. To maximize this, I probably should get the inners replaced when I get it aligned and maybe even get the small side reversed though I don't want to put too much money into this*. I might also need to get the crook cut a bit more (though I would not be able to use the main slide for 123 corrections then) as with that all the way in 4th line F is flat with the first slide in the default setting. I also figure I can use 2 of those fishing carabiner-like things and some line to make an easily removable slide stop. I think ideally I'd want 2 rings on the rod- one at the end for seated playing and one halfway up so I can use it while holding the horn and standing. I've not ever been able to find any sort of comfortable strap or harness for standing playing.
*The horn was either $500 or 600, I cannot remember now. Getting the 1st slide flipped was $50 and the main slide crook cut was that much or slightly less. I bought a nice used Altieri (Yamaha 621 size) for $100. I'm willing to put a bit more into the horn as I like it more than just about anything else I've played.
As it is, I've used it in my one semester as a music major** as my only horn and on several Army gigs with nothing worse than odd comments about it (and probably too many flat D's...). And since I play mostly bass and contrabass trombone now this is a nice valved alternative and it'd be nice to put my "blossoming" trombone skills to use on it (slide rod).
**It -was- kinda odd playing an American Brass quintet on it with a euphonium on the 4th part. Kind of the opposite of that group.

[Uncle Markie]

I played for years with the Butterfield "rods" on my 1st and 3rd slide (3-valve vintage King horn), and had them removed, and the 1st slide redirected, and CUT, and was much happier. The rods were dampening the horn's response. The horn's scale was much more even AFTER the rods went away.

Adding metal to horn KILLS off vibrations. I'm for cutting that 2nd slide, and lipping down the higher octave.

The fewer gimmicks the horn has, the more likely you'll be able to play it without fatigue - and getting a little nuts, too. I'm from the school that four valves ought to be enough, that some 3-valve horns play just fine, and that anything with more than than four valves probably has acoustical problems (taper, etc.) that are probably insurmountable anyway.

RE: braces - these are easy to to fabricate and relocate.

Good luck with your project.

Mark Heter