A question regarding repairs, and what is worth repairing.

[horseandtubagirl]

I saw this listing on ebay, which I know is full of bad deals, but it got me curious.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT" target="_blank" target="_blank

I am just beginning to learn about the horns I've been playing since high school. But I recognize Ceverney as a brand to trust. Is this one worth saving?

If it is, what would it cost to restore it?

Thanks for the help in learning more about Tubas.

Megan
recreational tubist and avid learner

[Tom]

It's hard to tell from the not-really-that-great photos exactly what the extent of the damage is, but isn't just "freight damaged," it shows evidence of being well used such as lacquer wear at the bell/bottom bow and on the valve paddles. And that's just what can be seen. Who knows what other issues there might be.

Cost to restore depends on your own ideas of "restoration." To make it as perfect as new like many of the high dollar, multi-year projects shown off on Tubenet, would be probably not worth it considering that you can buy this currently produced model brand new for around $3,400.

If I were shopping for a tuba, and especially if I had a strict budget, I'd buy a high quality used tuba from a known tuba dealer that was in my price range. That would eliminate a lot of the question marks, need for "restoration," and you'd even get a chance to try the instrument before the purchase was finalized. Check Dillon Music, Baltimore Brass, Tuba Exchange, etc. to see all of your options and what typical prices are. Don't settle for an ebay mystery tuba without at least knowing what all of your options are.

[Rick Denney]

If it means getting a $2000-$2500 tuba for a grand, and if you have that sort of money available for gambling, then the few hundred you might spend getting it into playable condition wouldn't make it a bad deal. Repair guys fix worse tubas with worse damage than this one every day.

But it is gamble. If the body is tweaked enough to bind up the valves, it will be costlier to repair. If it's worn out to the point valves need to be replaced, then it will certainly not be worth it. But my experience with Cerveny tubas is that by the time the valves wear that much there would not be even a hint of lacquer left on the instrument.

Of course, you've blown it by exposing the sale to anyone who might be interested. People for whom it is less of a gamble might be in the hunt.

Rick "noting that the list owner is not fond of ebay-based discussions" Denney

[The Big Ben]

Personally, I think the only people who do OK with "fixers from eBay" are the ones who can do the repairs themselves.

Probably be best to get one that is 'good to go' as it is rather than taking a gamble on something when you won't have full knowledge of the condition and the costs for putting it up to standard.

[imperialbari]

The photos are quite dark. They are not of the type found with auctions, where the instrument jumps out of the monitor in a very convincing way.

Cerveny/Amati make rotary instruments, which can be very convincing players. But to me they, that is made after WWII, have never had structural strengths convincing about their longevity. To me this one is a definite no-go. Had it been a B&S/Weltklang, I might have thought differently.

Klaus

[SousaSaver]

The bow guard doesn't always have to be removed to repair the bow dents. Cerveny metal is pretty soft and should move easily. If the shop you are sending it to has the right tools, this can be repaired for a small amount.

The bell... oh boy.

This is why this horn might be a gamble. It is going to require a decent amount of time to correctly remove the dents without cracking the metal. It isn't that difficult, but it is time consuming.

For the price this horn is currently going for, it might not be worth your while to buy it and attempt to have it repaired. It might be more feasible for a repair shop to buy it and restore it.

For what its worth, I worked on one of these today. Pretty good player...

[horseandtubagirl]

Thanks for the great discussion!

I am not looking to purchase a horn off ebay, so don't worry about that. I was just curious as to what people here at tubenet consider worthwhile to repair, and how expensive the repairs can run.

imperialbari brought up a good point...if it was _____________ brand, it would be worth restoring. Can I get a list of brands that horns with this type of extensive damage WOULD be worth saving?

[Dan Schultz]

......Can I get a list of brands that horns with this type of extensive damage WOULD be worth saving?

I know of some brand-name horns that are real 'stinkers'. I think the most common and easy to get parts for rotary tuba would be the Miraphone 186. The next most common rotary would be the Yamaha YBB-641. It seems to be a favorite with schools and parts are easy to get but I've never been impressed with the way it plays.... especially when compared with the Miraphone 186.

Cerveny has just never 'sparked me up' much. I've had a few of the Cervenys in question and they are descent players. But not spectacular by any stretch of the imagination.

[TubaRay]

......Can I get a list of brands that horns with this type of extensive damage WOULD be worth saving?

I know of some brand-name horns that are real 'stinkers'. I think the most common and easy to get parts for rotary tuba would be the Miraphone 186. The next most common rotary would be the Yamaha YBB-641. It seems to be a favorite with schools and parts are easy to get but I've never been impressed with the way it plays.... especially when compared with the Miraphone 186.

Cerveny has just never 'sparked me up' much. I've had a few of the Cervenys in question and they are descent players. But not spectacular by any stretch of the imagination.

I cannot address the parts issue, however I completely concur on the playable one.

[Tom]

I was just curious as to what people here at tubenet consider worthwhile to repair, and how expensive the repairs can run.

imperialbari brought up a good point...if it was _____________ brand, it would be worth restoring. Can I get a list of brands that horns with this type of extensive damage WOULD be worth saving?

The answer is that it depends on what kind of repairs it needs and not only what brand, but what model/configuration the tuba is. Not all brand "x" tubas are created equal.

Take Yamaha, for example. I wouldn't personally invest a dime in "restoring" a YBB-321, but a YFB-621, YFB-822, or YCB-826 would all be worth repairing except in the worst of cases.

Remember, too, that the new price of a given tuba is not necessarily the only indicator of if an instrument is worth restoring. I would not go so far as to say that no tuba from brand "x" is ever worth restoring, but I don't think that one is worth it (at least to me).

[SousaSaver]

......Can I get a list of brands that horns with this type of extensive damage WOULD be worth saving?

I know of some brand-name horns that are real 'stinkers'. I think the most common and easy to get parts for rotary tuba would be the Miraphone 186. The next most common rotary would be the Yamaha YBB-641. It seems to be a favorite with schools and parts are easy to get but I've never been impressed with the way it plays.... especially when compared with the Miraphone 186.

Cerveny has just never 'sparked me up' much. I've had a few of the Cervenys in question and they are descent players. But not spectacular by any stretch of the imagination.

My shop recently got an older Yamaha 641 with the mouthpipe ripped in half and "repaired" with something that looks like JB Weld and binding wire. Going to replace that pipe and go from there.

This particular Yamaha YBB-641 is missing a lever, which is discontinued and the mouthpipe will require a conversion kit. All of this on top of the regular cleaning, dent removal and et cetera. That being said, the average joe wouldn't want to buy this horn and have it repaired because the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the horn, but for a repair shop it is a good deal for the price we purchased it at.

There are some pictures of the horn in question at my blog:
http://www.sousacentral.blogspot.com