Incoming Freshman College Tuba/Sousaphone Players

[Rick Denney]

Well there is the perception that the symphony orchestra is just entertainment for rich old white people listening to the same old music written by some dead white men 200+ years ago.

I usually hear such statements from rich young white kids who haven't heard enough of it to claim that it's the same old anything. They do, however, often listen to extremely monotonous hip-hop that repeats the same old themes over and over again ad infinitum.

The first time I heard Beethoven's 5th (I was maybe age 8 at the time), it blew me away. I ripped off a cassette from the library and listened to it until it wore out, on an ultra-cheap Radio Shack monaural cassette player. Yes, that music was an old war horse to rich old white men, but it was new to me.

I was exposed to orchestra music in a school concert conducted by the Houston Symphony. I was in elementary school--perhaps the fourth or fifth grade--and even though I don't remember what they played I remember being deeply impressed by the experience.

In band, what kept me coming back was the music.

Rick "who enjoyed marching band and going to football games, but for whom such did not feed the soul" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Marching band isn't your cup of tea then don't do it, but why put down those who do it and try to do it well.

That wasn't the response I saw. What I saw was that the OP didn't have the authority to impose his reverence for marching band on his band mates, and therefore attempting to do so was likely only to frustrate both he and his mates.

And I saw the suggestion to go where it is taken sufficiently seriously to suit the OP, if it is truly that important to him. I'd say the same for a kid who was focused on orchestral music but at a college that didn't have an orchestra or an opportunity to study with a bona fide orchestra pro.

Neither of those perspectives are putting it down, it seems to me.

Rick "thinking we hear what we want to hear" Denney

[Arkietuba]

I like how these threads get spun off into other tangents

At our school, which is about a mid-size college (13,000+ students) we get all kinds of tuba players ranging from the best in the state to people who can barely keep a buzz going or know which foot to step off with...it's something you're gonna have to deal with and you can't just kick them out because they aren't good. They are there, USUALLY, because they love to march and you shouldn't kick anyone out of marching band if they like it. They may not march in step or play the right notes but does anyone ever give a "perfect" performance all the time? We all mess up and we can't come down on those who mess up more than the section leaders. You work with them as much as you can to help them out and if that doesn't work...well...you're s.o.l.

Now, if you go to a private school (and I can't imagine one with a marching band) you may have a good reason to kick someone out but it shouldn't be left up to the discression of the section leader. The band director is there for a reason and if you're lucky, you have a brass instructor or winds instructor and they know their stuff too...you are a student and shouldn't decide who's worthy to be in the section. I think that's just the wrong way to approach it...like many have said (including myself), if it's a legitimate problem go to the director or tuba instructor or whoever is in charge. They will probably just tell you to suck it up and deal with it.

I know how you feel because there was nothing I could do to reach this guy we had but God love him...he tried but just didn't know how to listen or march on the right foot. I was very frustrated but you just have to grin and bear it and make the best of it. I guarantee no one in the stands is going to notice 1-2 people not marching/playing "perfectly" unless you only have like 10 people total in your band (which we have some of those in AR for some reason).

[TCtubaKingConn00]

Even in high school people suck at tuba some people just aren't meant to play tuba or dedicated enough to be good or even okay. Sometimes size does matter playing tuba, we have this one freshman so small he can't handle it.

[SousaSaver]

Everyone, I need your opinions on what you would consider to be necessary for an incoming freshman tuba/sousaphone player.

In the past here at my college, there seems to be quite the difference in quality of tuba players, it's usually 50-50 - one player is good enough to be at the college level, the other probably should invest their time elsewhere...


A little history on some people I have dealt with:
A guy claimed he could play with the best, but had only recently (in less than a year) picked up the tuba, without lessons and joined in on by far one of the hardest drills and set of music I have experience. Suffice to say he dropped even before our first game - never memorized music like he said he had, couldnt play without blatting, couldnt tongue at all, never heard of or seen a sousaphone before, let alone hold one. Never practiced either

Another guy couldnt read notes on a page just knew the fingerings which he wrote in on all his music, had to use a stool to support himself while practicing indoor with the sousaphone (the rest of us stood). Couldnt play any louder than mezzo forte. Also never practiced, even when I waited around for him to show up during a time when he said he would be practicing. also happened with the guy above.

A final guy also had never really played the sousaphone, he practiced, but never learned anything - once he said he had practiced ten hours that week, but still didnt have the music ( the music that we had had for about 3 weeks) memorized. Couldnt play about the C in the staff, also couldnt play louder than a mezzo forte.


So what is your view on the knowledge an incoming freshman should have in order to keep up with the college level playing?

That is completely unexceptable from those 3 players. If this was on a collegiate level they should have been told that they aren't cutting it, and that they should move on. Usually colligate groups are formed by some form of audition, that would help you screen stuff like that. In college the students should know all the fingerings, have a range that at least covers that states all-state range (or real close to it) but perferably more, and they should have enough technique to keep up well.

(For marching band) Maybe in a perfect world, but this isn't always the case. In situations where you don't have enough people who want to do it, sometimes you take who you can get. I think that many places like the one I described take on people who aren't stellar and hope that they will catch up. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. At the very least, you have enough players to complete your charts.

This is entirely different for schools where players are beating down the door to be there. THEN you can be choosy, otherwise you might end up with no band at all.

I think it amounts to putting the people in leadership positions that can motivate people and help those who need it the most. Another option is grading players on something other than attendance. I recall having memorization tests in college marching band.

For concert bands, the educators can and should be more choosy. Every collegiate band I played in had an audition, no question about it.

[TexTuba]

Way to necro, guys.....

[SousaSaver]

Many of these issues will be addressed in my new Sousa and Tuba blog... coming soon to an internet near you!

[TCtubaKingConn00]

we always tell the freshman if they don't want to be in our sousa section then we can get a sax player to switch and probably play better than them. then not to be outdone, they get better (sometimes)

[TCtubaKingConn00]

That makes sense..but as upperclassmen in the section, it is our responsibility to make sure the section is the best it can be. Not just yourself as one person,that's selfish. We have to look at the section as a whole and make sure the SECTION is at it's best. For example: work with struggling players, find out what their weaknesses are. HELP THEM. Call sectionals...etc.. That's what I do, just my opinion though.

i agree dude

[tubainty]

This thread was very interesting to read and made me think about my own marching band experience.

I did marching band my first 2 years of highschool and absolutely HATED it. My school had a music program that was not very good, the band had about 40 or 50 people in it. We learned one show a year and did it memorized. Both my years in marching band there was one other tuba player, he and I did not get along. He was two years older than me, so he was a junior when I was a freshman. We had auditions at the beginning of the year and at the end of marching band for concert band season. Every time the director put me as first and this other guy as second. BUT, he was the only upperclassman in the low brass so he was designated by the director as "section leader", personally I thought that was BS since it was known that I played better. Not only that but he got the one new sousaphone and I got the old crappy one. That made me very angry, I didn't understand it at all, and I still don't.

I always tried my hardest in marching band, I memorized the music before we were required and made sure that I was able to play every bit of it. I practiced EVERY day after school (not for marching band but because that's what I wanted to do. And still do.). I wanted to play the best that I could and wanted to improve as much as I could. This other guy NEVER practiced and NEVER really had his music memorized. He was obnoxious and always goofing around. This guy was also kind of a bully to other students, the younger ones especially (he was a "jock" played on sports teams and was very athletic. I was not.) I tried to get him to play better, I would point out were he missed a note or a rhythm, or critique his intonation or whatever. I thought "hey this kid is older than me, he should be way better than this.". We got into all kinds of disagreements and one day came very close to getting into a physical confrontation with him. We were very lucky that others intervened.

Marching band simply wasn't worth all the crap I was putting myself through to make my section better. I should have just left that guy alone and just had fun or quit.

It just wasn't for me, I didn't enjoy marching band so I never should have joined the band in the first place. I expected it to be something that it just wasn't. I was in the wrong in that situation. You cannot make someone do something if they don't want to, especially if you are a fellow student and not the director or someone else in charge. I only wish I had realized that back then, I made a real *** of myself.

[Biggs]

I sincerely hope this thread dies before I do.

[sloan]

This thread was very interesting to read and made me think about my own marching band experience.

I did marching band my first 2 years of highschool and absolutely HATED it. My school had a music program that was not very good, the band had about 40 or 50 people in it. We learned one show a year and did it memorized. Both my years in marching band there was one other tuba player, he and I did not get along. He was two years older than me, so he was a junior when I was a freshman. We had auditions at the beginning of the year and at the end of marching band for concert band season. Every time the director put me as first and this other guy as second. BUT, he was the only upperclassman in the low brass so he was designated by the director as "section leader", personally I thought that was BS since it was known that I played better. Not only that but he got the one new sousaphone and I got the old crappy one. That made me very angry, I didn't understand it at all, and I still don't.

Being the "best player" is not always the same thing as being the "best section leader".

[tubainty]

This thread was very interesting to read and made me think about my own marching band experience.

I did marching band my first 2 years of highschool and absolutely HATED it. My school had a music program that was not very good, the band had about 40 or 50 people in it. We learned one show a year and did it memorized. Both my years in marching band there was one other tuba player, he and I did not get along. He was two years older than me, so he was a junior when I was a freshman. We had auditions at the beginning of the year and at the end of marching band for concert band season. Every time the director put me as first and this other guy as second. BUT, he was the only upperclassman in the low brass so he was designated by the director as "section leader", personally I thought that was BS since it was known that I played better. Not only that but he got the one new sousaphone and I got the old crappy one. That made me very angry, I didn't understand it at all, and I still don't.

That's entirely true, I would not have been a good section leader. How ever, this guy was worse at it than I would have been. He would often show up late to night rehearsals late or not at all. On several occasions he showed up drunk or high. He was suspended for a week for sexual harassment. He physically threatened me on several occasions. And still the director left him as section leader, in my opinion he should have been kicked out of the band. But that was not my decision to make.
Being the "best player" is not always the same thing as being the "best section leader".