Mouthpieces and the Holy Grail

[TMurphy]

I know the Bach 24AW has been a very popular mouthpiece with Eb tuba players in the UK for many years. I believe it was John Fletcher's mouthpiece of choice. It has a slightly smaller inner diameter than the Bach 18, a thicker rim and has a pretty deep cup.

It is not stainless, but it is a third the price of an LM-9 and might be worth a try before you purchase the LM-7. And if you fall in love with it, you can always have it gold plated. Just a thought.

Forgot to mention the 24AW in my previous post. Been there, played on that (with this horn), definitely not what I'm looking for. Thanks for the help, though!

[TubaBobH]

Forgot to mention the 24AW in my previous post. Been there, played on that (with this horn), definitely not what I'm looking for. Thanks for the help, though!

No problem. The 24AW was never one of my favorites either, although some Eb players think they are a top drawer mpc.

[Kevin Hendrick]

... lately I've been trying the 2L again. I still like the 2SL better, but I really miss the softer feel of gold. So I'm starting to wonder. Should I plate my mouthpiece? Get another 2SL in gold? Or maybe try out one of those stainless steel mouthpieces everyone's talking about (I know Greg suggested an LM9...any other ideas)???



Sigh...and I was always so happy with the 2SL....

If the 2SL is still your favorite, and you prefer the feel of gold, it seems like a good solution would be to order a 2SL in gold, and when it arrives, send your current one out to be plated. That way, you won't have to "do without" while your current one's out being plated, and when it comes back you'll have a backup!

[TMurphy]

... lately I've been trying the 2L again. I still like the 2SL better, but I really miss the softer feel of gold. So I'm starting to wonder. Should I plate my mouthpiece? Get another 2SL in gold? Or maybe try out one of those stainless steel mouthpieces everyone's talking about (I know Greg suggested an LM9...any other ideas)???



Sigh...and I was always so happy with the 2SL....

If the 2SL is still your favorite, and you prefer the feel of gold, it seems like a good solution would be to order a 2SL in gold, and when it arrives, send your current one out to be plated. That way, you won't have to "do without" while your current one's out being plated, and when it comes back you'll have a backup!

That, sir, sounds like a good idea. And probably would cost the same or just slightly more than one of those LM9's.

[iiipopes]

In addition to my signature, which I have just updated, Kanstul has just made me a custom 18 that is working really, really well with my recording bell on my 186. When I got the recording bell up and running thanks to Dan Schultz, I didn't like the tonal or response characteristics of almost all of my other mouthpieces, with the exception of the Kelly 18. But, of course, the Kelly 18 being lexan, was prone to blat a little, even with the lead tape around the throat.

Kanstul makes a version of an 18 which in depth is about halfway between a Bach 18 and the Kelly 18, but in the traditional 1.26 cup diameter. I emailed Jim at Kanstul to see if he could do the same mouthpiece for a reasonable price in 1.28. Well, since everything they do is laser & CNC, he was able to send me a cross-section trace like they have on their "comparator" online for trumpet mouthpieces that compared their stock 18 to my desired modification. I pulled the trigger, and it is exactly what I need for that combination and application. The 1.28 diameter is what fits my embouchure best, the bowl cup gives me the overtones I need for projection and blend with the ensembles and occasions I use the recording bell, and the depth gives a tad more fundamental than a stock 18, but doesn't lose any response, and the more moderate throat and backbore help me with my breath support and control.

Now, it's not the easiest mouthpiece to play. I started trying "too hard" to get it going, and the throat and backbore, also being a tad smaller than current Bach production, "barked" or "cracked" on me with my slight overbite occasionally trying to use too much top lip. But once I relaxed into it, recentered myself and got my top/bottom lip back into correct proportion, the tone really blossomed.

If you have a mouthpiece that you like, but not completely, and are always asking yourself, "I like this mouthpiece, but if only [insert detail] was changed," then Jim at Kanstul can take care of you.

[Tubaryan12]

17 years ago, I bought my first tuba, and with it came a Bach 18. This was my principal mouthpiece for years until one day I bought a Helleberg on a lark. I then prefered to use the bach if I hadn't practiced much and the Helleberg if I had been practicing a lot.

Over the last 3+ years of my search I have found this to be the case. If I am playing a lot, I need a bigger inside diameter to the cup. I'm now playing more, and the smaller mouthpieces just don't get the job done. My main piece is now the Miraphone TU-23 (32.5 mm). Most of the stuff I play now is band and quintet and this mouthpiece with its quick response is perfect for that. I have a Mike Finn 4H on the way. That will get a try as well.

[Tubaryan12]

I realize that all this is meaningless for anyone but me. Reading about someone's searching for the right mp is like reading about an athlete's search for the right shoe. Unless you happen to have feet and other physical attributes identical to that person, and unless you play exactly the same sport in exactly the same way, another person's choice of shoe may give you absolutely no guidance in selecting your own. The RM-1. works well for me on my horn, but if I could play like my old instructor on a Bach 18, I would have happily stuck with the 18 years ago.

YMMV.

That's the thing....when I originally started this thread, I was (and still am) more interested in the journey, than in the actual mouthpiece that each player settled on. That's the real interesting part. The rest is just equipment. The poll was just out of curiosity.

[iiipopes]

Oh, yeah: I keep a spare Kelly 18 in my car. Sometimes I use it for buzzing, or "cooling off" on the way home if it has been a long or strenuous rehearsal, and I never have to worry about forgetting something.

[Tubaryan12]

Thank you, Mike Finn.

[roughrider]

William Bell was once asked what type of mouthpiece a tuba player should use in their horn. His reply was "The one that came with the horn". I have owned a Bach mouthpiece for many years, however I always return to the Equa-tru mouthpiece that came with my HN.White horn. It fits my face, is comfortable and produces the notes and sounds necessary.

[Mike Finn]

Thank you, Mike Finn.
Marzan BBb - 4 rotor, Mike Finn 4H

Glad I could help!

[Tubaryan12]

Well, a little over 4 years have passed. I've had some good luck and bad luck with mouthpieces during this time and have taken a lot of ribbing from the members of the quintet I play in. For me, at least, I have figured out a few things about myself and my playing:

I prefer wide rims over narrow ones.
I like inside diameters to be between 32.00 to 32.50 mm
I prefer deep cups over shallow ones. My sound gets too blatty with shallow cups.
I now play a mouthpiece with a much larger throat than I would have even considered when this first started.
Sharp inner bites on narrow rims hurt.....a lot.

Right now I'm playing a Mike Finn MF-1. It kind of reminds me of a Bach 18, but with more room and wider slots. I have to push it to make the tone break up. I'm going to need a little more time to determine if this one is " the one", but It's very close.

If nothing else, the quest has kept me busy.

[opus37]

Yes, I use a Bach 18. I got one when a friend gave me an old very beat up Eb sousaphone and a bach 18. The horn died but the mouth piece didn't. My current horn has a small receiver. I play a Denis Wick 3 with my Eb. I wanted to try a slightly larger mouth piece, so I put the Bach 18 into the lathe and made it fit. It an't pretty, but it works. I found I like the larger mouth piece from time to time. I have ordered a PT-84 in the smallest shank. I think it will be great if it ever gets to me.........

[tclements]

I designed my own....

[Tubaryan12]

I know I've said these words before, but this time, I think I am really done.

[sailn2ba]

Bloke,
Ref: your 2/7/10/ post on CONTRABASS tuba mouthpieces.
I found it a little hard to follow, but I understand your progression to be:

Marcinkiewicz (H1)
Laskey 30H ( Schilke Helleberg II) - nice sound, narrow cup, air noise
? large Helleberg, - restrictive throat, slow low range response
Added reverse taper throat, and am happy with it.

But, what is the “it” you ended up and are happy with?

I progressed through an unidentified Conn, Bach 18, Conn Helleberg (on Miraphone 185, then Cerveny 681) and finally, Laskey 30H on Cerveny 686 5V. It’s not a 5/4 horn, but with 20.2/21.2 mm bore it’s capable of good sound 5 leger lines below b.c. I get slow response. . . probably partly my own limitations. However, I know that mouthpiece makes a difference if you work with one for a while, and I am open to that. So, what is the mouthpiece you ended up with on your contrabass?

Thanks

[MartyNeilan]

Bloke,
Ref: your 2/7/10/ post on CONTRABASS tuba mouthpieces.
I found it a little hard to follow, but I understand your progression to be:

Marcinkiewicz (H1)
Laskey 30H ( Schilke Helleberg II) - nice sound, narrow cup, air noise
? large Helleberg, - restrictive throat, slow low range response
Added reverse taper throat, and am happy with it.

But, what is the “it” you ended up and are happy with?

I progressed through an unidentified Conn, Bach 18, Conn Helleberg (on Miraphone 185, then Cerveny 681) and finally, Laskey 30H on Cerveny 686 5V. It’s not a 5/4 horn, but with 20.2/21.2 mm bore it’s capable of good sound 5 leger lines below b.c. I get slow response. . . probably partly my own limitations. However, I know that mouthpiece makes a difference if you work with one for a while, and I am open to that. So, what is the mouthpiece you ended up with on your contrabass?

Thanks

The Bloke is never short on words, but perhaps this will at least partially answer your question:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=40458

[ppalan]

I studied with Torchy for quite a while. He did use a Bach 18. He also had a closet full of mouthpieces he had collected over the years including one made from bamboo (or some type of wood). I played on a Bach 24W in highschool and later switched to the 18 and played that for years. My current mouthpiece is a "Blokepiece" Solo on my Eb and a Symphony with the same rim on my 186 CC. It seems like every year or so I pull out all of mouthpieces, line them up and play test. As a kid, I guess I was looking for the "perfect" mouthpiece to make me sound like ______
It took me a while to figure out it really wasn't the mouthpiece. (a bit slow I guess) Anyway, I like what I've got now because it helps me get close to the sound I have in my head. It just took a while to start listening to that sound.

[Bob Kolada]

I have tried smaller, larger, and much larger, but the Bach 18 is just about all I use anymore on any tuba from my little King Eb to sousa. I have a few 30mm mouthpieces (1 tweener, 2 contrabone) that I stick in the King every now and then but I don't remember the last time I used them in a group. They do a decent cimbasso impersonation but I have a horn that's more accurate.
I would like something noticeably shallower with the same rim in the King but the 18 works fine there.

[Tubaryan12]

Finally, done.